Should property taxes be swapped out for something else?

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techstepgenr8tion
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07 Feb 2012, 4:55 pm

Ie. compensated in a different way. In the US it seems like they do vary from city to city, state to state, etc.. Some states have smoothing gradients, some don't. The big headache with these though - even if you've paid the bank off free and clear, in many places you're still paying $200 to $300 per month in property taxes and, worse than rent, if someone falls on hard times and can't pay they're out of a home and their equity. In that sense, while having a mortgage is better than renting from the equity point of view you're still stuck half-renting. My hope on this idea; if it were abolished and replaced dollar per dollar if people couldn't pay; at worst they'd lose their utilities but not their house. That and, monthly family expenses might be significantly more manageable; even being underwater might not end up being critical in quite the same way it once was.

What do you think? Would it be a major net positive and can you think of a different sector to levy the tax revenues for local governments? Also, if you were talking about a state level tax is there a way of getting around that caveat for local governments to have their needs met properly?

Just some philosophical exploration here and I'd be curious to get some thoughts.


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JWC
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07 Feb 2012, 5:09 pm

I'd say get rid of public schools (which is where most property tax revenue goes anyway) and let people use the money to put their kids in the private school of their choice.



Jacoby
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07 Feb 2012, 6:09 pm

They should get rid of all property taxes and income taxes. You and you alone are entitled to the fruit of your labor, allowing these taxes to exist means you are forever a slave to the state and the government is just allowing you to live.



ruveyn
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07 Feb 2012, 7:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:
They should get rid of all property taxes and income taxes. You and you alone are entitled to the fruit of your labor, allowing these taxes to exist means you are forever a slave to the state and the government is just allowing you to live.


How do you propose to maintain an armed force without some kind of taxation?

ruveyn



Jacoby
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07 Feb 2012, 8:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should get rid of all property taxes and income taxes. You and you alone are entitled to the fruit of your labor, allowing these taxes to exist means you are forever a slave to the state and the government is just allowing you to live.


How do you propose to maintain an armed force without some kind of taxation?

ruveyn


excise taxes and tariffs



pandabear
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07 Feb 2012, 8:40 pm

JWC wrote:
I'd say get rid of public schools (which is where most property tax revenue goes anyway) and let people use the money to put their kids in the private school of their choice.


Private school of their choice? My, such outrageous liberalism.

The children could be used in medical experiments, or sold profitably to factories, plantations and brothels.

Or, roasted and eaten.



ruveyn
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08 Feb 2012, 5:02 am

pandabear wrote:
JWC wrote:
I'd say get rid of public schools (which is where most property tax revenue goes anyway) and let people use the money to put their kids in the private school of their choice.


Private school of their choice? My, such outrageous liberalism.

The children could be used in medical experiments, or sold profitably to factories, plantations and brothels.

Or, roasted and eaten.


I should agree with you swiftly.

ruveyn



techstepgenr8tion
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08 Feb 2012, 8:24 am

pandabear wrote:
JWC wrote:
I'd say get rid of public schools (which is where most property tax revenue goes anyway) and let people use the money to put their kids in the private school of their choice.


Private school of their choice? My, such outrageous liberalism.

The children could be used in medical experiments, or sold profitably to factories, plantations and brothels.

Or, roasted and eaten.

Well, JWC's idea would at least take roasting and eating the public teachers unions.


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pandabear
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08 Feb 2012, 8:38 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Well, JWC's idea would at least take roasting and eating the public teachers unions.


Some of the teachers might be able to find employment elsewhere, or to live by hunting and gathering, or by forming gangs.

How to dispose of the children might take some thought.



techstepgenr8tion
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08 Feb 2012, 8:46 am

pandabear wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Well, JWC's idea would at least take roasting and eating the public teachers unions.


Some of the teachers might be able to find employment elsewhere, or to live by hunting and gathering, or by forming gangs.

How to dispose of the children might take some thought.

I suppose I'd turn that task over to you since you seem quite excited about the prospect.


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Burzum
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08 Feb 2012, 9:47 am

pandabear wrote:
Private school of their choice? My, such outrageous liberalism.

The children could be used in medical experiments, or sold profitably to factories, plantations and brothels.

Or, roasted and eaten.

I don't get it.



DC
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08 Feb 2012, 9:49 am

As a philosophical exercise, a straight answer:

Because you will turn into Britain.

What do I mean by that?

In 1066 AD a nasty bunch of chaps invaded Britain and divided the country up between them. They passed on their ill gotten gains down their unbroken family line for the next thousand years.

The end product of the system you propose is that access to resources (land - roof over your head etc) is forever left in the hands of an ever more feckless, inbred and corrupt aristocracy while the productive members of society are reduced to effective slavery.

If you don't believe me try watching a TV series done in Britain called country house rescue, you can be shocked and appalled when you see that there still exists in Britain a class of people who are proud of the fact that no member of their family has had a job in 160 years and they still get to live in multi-million pound mansion. Not only that, they expect help to pay for the upkeep and restoration of the property they squat in.

Is that really the America you want?



JWC
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08 Feb 2012, 10:21 am

pandabear wrote:
JWC wrote:
I'd say get rid of public schools (which is where most property tax revenue goes anyway) and let people use the money to put their kids in the private school of their choice.


Private school of their choice? My, such outrageous liberalism.

The children could be used in medical experiments, or sold profitably to factories, plantations and brothels.

Or, roasted and eaten.


I honestly don't understand what you're getting at, please explain.



ruveyn
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08 Feb 2012, 10:22 am

DC wrote:
As a philosophical exercise, a straight answer:

Because you will turn into Britain.

What do I mean by that?

In 1066 AD a nasty bunch of chaps invaded Britain and divided the country up between them. They passed on their ill gotten gains down their unbroken family line for the next thousand years.

The end product of the system you propose is that access to resources (land - roof over your head etc) is forever left in the hands of an ever more feckless, inbred and corrupt aristocracy while the productive members of society are reduced to effective slavery.

If you don't believe me try watching a TV series done in Britain called country house rescue, you can be shocked and appalled when you see that there still exists in Britain a class of people who are proud of the fact that no member of their family has had a job in 160 years and they still get to live in multi-million pound mansion. Not only that, they expect help to pay for the upkeep and restoration of the property they squat in.

Is that really the America you want?


Were Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniac born rich? Tom Edison was a poor boy who made good. Andrew Carnegie came over from Scotland with the clothes on his back and a few coins in his pockets. Henry Ford was not born into wealth. And so on and so on and so on.

Most of the leading inventors and intellectuals did not come from rich families.

Most of the innovators did not come from rich families but many of them became wealthy by their own efforts.

The reason why most people do not succeed is because they are either lazy or stupid.

ruveyn



pandabear
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08 Feb 2012, 10:57 am

ruveyn wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should get rid of all property taxes and income taxes. You and you alone are entitled to the fruit of your labor, allowing these taxes to exist means you are forever a slave to the state and the government is just allowing you to live.


How do you propose to maintain an armed force without some kind of taxation?

ruveyn


There is no need for taxation to maintain an armed force. That's socialism.

We have the Second Amendment. That is all that we need.



pandabear
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08 Feb 2012, 10:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
The reason why most people do not succeed is because they are either lazy or stupid.

ruveyn


Or, too damned honest.