Why do you have to be in favour of mass immigration...

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...if you're going to call yourself left-wing?

I made another thread about this topic, so I could avoid further derailing this one: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf189390-0-15.html

I know immigration scares are a stock sensationalist source of conservative tabloid bumf, but why is it something of a party-line amongst the left not to question mass immigration? When I was younger, I used to toe this line somewhat, but I think since entering the world of work, I've come to question the social effects of mass immigration on my country, and the economic effects of uncontrolled immigration.

I'm not in favour of scapegoating marginalised groups but I don't understand why it's impossible to have a discussion on this topic, without someone accusing you of racism (which is ironic given that I don't believe in race). I believe the problems associated with the immigration 'issue' are exaggerated by certain sections of the right, but why is it taboo on the left to even discuss them?

I'm not looking to get into an argument, I'm just curious to know what other left-winger thinks about this issue.

You don't have to be. I've made at least one thread debating immigration policies in Canada, which I feel are somewhat flawed. Strangely enough a lot of our policies originate from the Conservative Mulroney government. I am not for mass immigration not because I am afraid of "cultural extinction" but because a lot of professionals from other countries come here and are unable to work in fields they are trained in thus adding to a general malaise. One that is cross generational in nature, as there are some extremely poor areas in Canada...

^^^

The general malaise thing is a good point that I hadn't considered before.

Cultural extinction is a paranoid fantasy that'll never happen. I still facepalm whenever anyone mentions the word 'Eurabia', even though I am fond of criticising the liberal tendency to excuse Islamic cultures of nasty practices. My concern is really the effect on poor white communities living alongside the immigrant ones. You end up with towns like Oldham where there's almost an apartheid. I also worry about the potential brain drain from the country of origin for immigrants.

The NHS would be FUBAR without immigrants, but I sometimes question whether it's healthy to be so reliant on them.

im not for mass immigration perse,
but i do think that regular immigra´tion is a good thing,
without importing skilled people to teach and utilize their skills there can only be what innovation a country can come up with "alone"

as for general immigration, it has pros and cons and in any system you will always have a certain amount of bad apples, maybe we should concentrate on why there is a rising rate of immigartion and how to improve on the general state of the world.

This idea, I think, is more genuinely internationalist.

I'm a leftist who believes in policies that don't dehumanize people.

I can hardly fault people from wanting to come here for a better shot at a good life. I find myself preferentially patronizing immigrant owned businesses. Of course, that's easy for me, because I'm a bit of a foodie, and so many of the restaurants i like are foreign in nature. But I also patronize a mexican cobbler. Because he's eager to do the work, and does good work.

I have many coworkers from foreign countries who are here on H1B visas and I think a lot of them are getting a raw deal.

I think the cost of immigrant labor would go up if they had more rights.

I also wish their own countries could get themselves sorted out, but that's not always a realistic idea. I think India for example is going through exactly the same sorts of things our country was about 80 years ago, just with a lot more people in a smaller area with a lot more technology. It's going to take them another generation to sort it out, at least, probably two.

I also work next door to an immigration court which is essentially a deportation mill. They have plain white vans and plain white busses with opaque windows (white on the vans, black on the busses) in and out of there every day and it makes me feel sad. Dreams are being crushed. Families are being torn apart. In the name of the law.

^

Immigrants often do work harder and I frequent their business constantly. However, the law is the law and I haven't that much sympathy for illegals getting deported. I do think immigrants on work visas deserve more rights, though.

Asylum seekers is another issue. I've worked with plenty of them, and I think the way they are treated is disgusting. They often try to slit their wrists and throats at the immigration court in Liverpool, rather than go back to their own country (my sister worked for the courts, so she told me about it).

I support that sort of policy as well

Every side has it's dogmas.

I lean left but don't believe that we should have an open border.

Interesting. I'm a Conservative in favor of immigration. I've always wondered why I got accused of being a radical liberal whenever I discussed it.

What Conservative ideas do you hold?

I've seen you mention that you were Conservative a couple of times, but I've never seen you say anything Conservative.

Anti-immigration is not always a racist belief but it is definitely a nationalist belief.

I personally think that immigrant just want a better life for themselves and their familys.
Most immigrants that I know are respectful and hard working.

TeaEarlGreyHot: You get accused of being a radical liberal because it a very international socialist belief.
It's quite rare for a conservative.

I'm a weird Conservative.

I'm Libertarian. Honestly, I don't talk much about my Conservative ideology.

I'm all for internationalism, but immigration policies are not motivated by that. They are mostly motivated by the need for cheap labour. That's why I argue for more rights for immigrants who come here to work legally.

And yes, immigrants are motivated by a very understandable desire for a better life. This does not alter anything about the debate or make mass immigration a good thing per se. Nor does it negate many of the disadvantages of immigration.

I'm a weird socialist.