English Kids Learning to Speak English Properly

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pandabear
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26 Feb 2012, 7:59 am

SanityTheorist
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01 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm

If you want responses I recommend adding some thoughts from it.


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shrox
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01 Mar 2012, 2:16 pm

North and South Carolina could use some skooling in tawkin.



Billybones
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01 Mar 2012, 2:50 pm

What constitutes "proper" English?

After all, sounds shift, word meanings change, what gets perceived as the "prestige" form of a language (dialects, locutions, accents, etc.) also change over time & geographic region. All living languages evolve. Grammar "rules" are, in the end, completely arbitrary.



shrox
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01 Mar 2012, 3:03 pm

Billybones wrote:
What constitutes "proper" English?...


Being understood.



Fnord
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01 Mar 2012, 3:53 pm

Dr. William H. Cosby, Jr., Ed. PhD knows...

While at a multiracial gala dinner in Washington, D.C. commemorating the 50th Anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision, Cosby targeted under-educated lower-income blacks as the source of various social problems. Among his comments:

Quote:
"People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around...the lower economic people are not holding up their end of the deal. These people are not parenting."

And he mocked the way some blacks name their children:

Quote:
"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics'...

"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all that crap, and all of them are in jail... They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't.' 'Where you is.' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"


Bill Cosby was decrying the state of language among uneducated people, and pointing out that poor language skills are what holds them back.

What's both tragic and weird is that there is a sector of the general population that actually takes pride in their poor language skills, while it simultaneously blames "The Man" for their lack of successful and long-lasting employment.



shrox
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01 Mar 2012, 3:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dr. William H. Cosby, Jr., Ed. PhD knows...

While at a multiracial gala dinner in Washington, D.C. commemorating the 50th Anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision, Cosby targeted under-educated lower-income blacks as the source of various social problems. Among his comments:

Quote:
"People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around...the lower economic people are not holding up their end of the deal. These people are not parenting."

And he mocked the way some blacks name their children:

Quote:
"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics'...

"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all that crap, and all of them are in jail... They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't.' 'Where you is.' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"


Bill Cosby was decrying the state of language among uneducated people, and pointing out that poor language skills are what holds them back.

What's both tragic and weird is that there is a sector of the general population that actually takes pride in their poor language skills, while it simultaneously blames "The Man" for their lack of successful and long-lasting employment.


Well the most unfortunate name is Simion, it's supposed to be a variation on Simon, but it comes out spoken as Simian. I feel weird when I meet someone with that name (always black so far), and I have to say it. I explained it to one guy I worked with, but he already knew and said most people aren't smart enough to make the connection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian



Vexcalibur
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01 Mar 2012, 5:01 pm

SanityTheorist wrote:
If you want responses I recommend adding some thoughts from it.
Seems panda didn't need such thing to get your response.


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WilliamWDelaney
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01 Mar 2012, 5:17 pm

Is it possible that English could end up going the way of Latin, where speakers of nearly identical languages like Spanish and Italian nevertheless find it useful under some circumstances to communicate with each other in a common historical tongue?

I mean, we already have classes in the American South aimed at helping people speak without a Southern accent. It's taught as a job skill, not as your identity. The people taking these classes are as often as not quite proud of their accent. It's their heritage. However, they have a vested interest in being able to communicate effectively with people they are in business with.



shrox
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01 Mar 2012, 5:27 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Is it possible that English could end up going the way of Latin, where speakers of nearly identical languages like Spanish and Italian nevertheless find it useful under some circumstances to communicate with each other in a common historical tongue?

I mean, we already have classes in the American South aimed at helping people speak without a Southern accent. It's taught as a job skill, not as your identity. The people taking these classes are as often as not quite proud of their accent. It's their heritage. However, they have a vested interest in being able to communicate effectively with people they are in business with.


That's a good thing. Kind of multilingual in a way.



Chipshorter
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01 Mar 2012, 6:02 pm

That part of England had one of the worst accents in the UK.
Thank god my accent, the Scouse accent is one of the best. I'll keep my accent thank you am proud of it :wink:

To be honest IMHO they should be teaching the Welsh language and other Celt languages of the UK in English schools.


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01 Mar 2012, 6:03 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
SanityTheorist wrote:
If you want responses I recommend adding some thoughts from it.
Seems panda didn't need such thing to get your response.


win


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01 Mar 2012, 11:13 pm

Chipshorter wrote:

To be honest IMHO they should be teaching the Welsh language and other Celt languages of the UK in English schools.


Why?


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Chipshorter
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02 Mar 2012, 8:44 am

puddingmouse wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:

To be honest IMHO they should be teaching the Welsh language and other Celt languages of the UK in English schools.


Why?


To build better cultural & historical relationships with the other countries in the Union of the UK & Ireland. Also are you forgetting that England has its own living Celtic language, the Cornish language.


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Tequila
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02 Mar 2012, 8:47 am

Chipshorter wrote:
Thank god my accent, the Scouse accent is one of the best. I'll keep my accent thank you am proud of it :wink:


You're definitely a Scouser alright. ;)