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androbot2084
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16 Mar 2012, 9:43 pm

So if angels neither marry or are given in marriage why should people get married?



androbot2084
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16 Mar 2012, 10:16 pm

So anyway here is how the new society works. You have two groups of people. One group is called the choosers and the other group is called the chosen. This is analogous to grooms and brides in our current society. However
any sex can be a groom and any sex can be a bride. The choosers are an elite group of people. They have achieved celebrity status in the society to such a degree that no one would refuse to have sex with them. The chosen are the brides and they are a sub class but are elite in their own way as they seek to become the chosen. They do everything in their power to improve their condition so as to attract their potential lovers. Although they cannot refuse the advances from their lovers they can be passed up. But hope is not lost. For example a celebrity could be a diet and exercise guru who would be willing to work with a bride to make him or her more attractive.

Those who refuse to accept the new ways would live in reservations where they would be doomed to struggle with problems like war, unemployment and famine. The people living in the reservations would always condemn the new civilization as being immoral yet they would never face their own hypocrisy.



androbot2084
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16 Mar 2012, 10:44 pm

And I do not want to hear any objections about lack of freedom of choice. Remember this is a communist society where we have annihilation of self. What I have tried to make clear is that no one would be obligated to have sex with anyone considered undesirable. This was the problem with Brave New World. But the chosen would be under obligation to have sex with desirable people so some freedoms would be lost. But for those who insist on total freedom would have to live in the reservations.



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16 Mar 2012, 10:45 pm

Joker wrote:
Msrriage has been around longer then most of the world religions marriage didnt get its roots from a religious belief or practice.


Correct. Also, any anthropologist will tell you that there isn't a culture in the world where there isn't some sort of marriage.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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16 Mar 2012, 10:54 pm

In my proposed society there would be a slogan. " No marriages per se but weddings every day. " Brides would lay awake in their beds at night waiting for their lovers to carry them away to this big wedding feast. So the love would be celebrated but it would not be permanent.



16 Mar 2012, 11:04 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
And I do not want to hear any objections about lack of freedom of choice. Remember this is a communist society where we have annihilation of self............



:lmao:





androbot2084 wrote:
So anyway here is how the new society works. You have two groups of people. One group is called the choosers and the other group is called the chosen. This is analogous to grooms and brides in our current society. However
any sex can be a groom and any sex can be a bride. The choosers are an elite group of people. They have achieved celebrity status in the society to such a degree that no one would refuse to have sex with them. The chosen are the brides and they are a sub class but are elite in their own way as they seek to become the chosen. They do everything in their power to improve their condition so as to attract their potential lovers. Although they cannot refuse the advances from their lovers they can be passed up. But hope is not lost. For example a celebrity could be a diet and exercise guru who would be willing to work with a bride to make him or her more attractive.

Those who refuse to accept the new ways would live in reservations where they would be doomed to struggle with problems like war, unemployment and famine. The people living in the reservations would always condemn the new civilization as being immoral yet they would never face their own hypocrisy.



Nobody is ever going to go along with this idea of yours. What cracks me up is how people who perceive themselves as part of a genetic elite believe that they are entitled to not have to follow any rules and not have to put up with any competition! (This is what they like to call "freedom from fear").




androbot2084 wrote:
So if angels neither marry or are given in marriage why should people get married?



Because angels don't exist and people are intrinsically barbarian. All of 'em. And that means YOU.



Last edited by AspieRogue on 17 Mar 2012, 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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17 Mar 2012, 12:17 am

I would like to remind everyone to keep the discussion civil. Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this forum.


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17 Mar 2012, 1:15 am

kg4fxg wrote:
Marriage is cultural.

I am white and middle upper class. Both my wife and I have many professional degrees. Once you peg someone into a class you will find the answer. Look at cultures or ethic stereotypes where marriage and family have failed terribly. Statistics do not lie. Sad but true.

Been married 22 years. And still earning degrees and enjoying the life of luxury.


I am glad that your life is good. :)



kg4fxg
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17 Mar 2012, 6:38 am

androbot2084 wrote:
So if angels neither marry or are given in marriage why should people get married?


The first thing that comes to mind here is animals. I hear that Dolphins and other animals mate for life. I find it interesting that animals would have one mate forever, which is a good thing. I am not religious which sounds odd after being in Catholic Seminary for three years. My experience with religion has not been positive. But I am not attacking religion and if it works for you all the better. I do think some of the huge scandals in some churches cause marriages to fail because so much of the marriage is based on one religion.

Maybe the animals could teach us something. For me, I love animals.



androbot2084
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17 Mar 2012, 8:39 am

Anyway the ideas I am presenting are so radical that I expect criticism so I will waive my rights at least for this thread.

Now as far as competition and not following any rules the new society does indeed have rules and competition. The problem with Brave New World was that people were obligated to have sex with undesirable people which caused the society to fall apart. In my proposed new society this problem will be fixed by introducing to classes of people. The first class of people will be unanimously accepted as super divas. Generally these people will be youthful in appearance, athletically fit, great musicians , poets, celebrities, etc. This elite class will have the power to choose any sexual partner that they want without rejection.. The second class of people consist of less desirable people. The lower class may be sexually desirable and they may be even more sexually desirable than the diva class but they are not universally sexually desirable by everyone. However the second class are elite in their own way as they are considered the chosen. The second class are feminine in nature as they strive to attract their lovers and will not refuse them because they are communist in nature so they do not have ownership of their own bodies. But these people freely chose to become communist rather than to live in the capitalist reservations. The second class are feminine in nature not having the power to choose lovers but only to attract them but these people can either be male or female.



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17 Mar 2012, 9:02 am

Sorry, but this sounds like Plato's "Republic". Also reminds me of the superhuman that Hitler had in mind. Just observations. I am not expressing an opinion for or against. Another example of pegging people into classes by observation is Ayn Rand "Atlas Shrugged".



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17 Mar 2012, 10:34 am

First of all nobody believes in Ayn Rand and her doctrine of selfishness unless you are a greedy person who believes in the illusion of money. Yet Ayn Rand has a point. Nobody should be forced to live under Communism. That's why in the new society capitalist preserves are set up for the people who want to live under that hell.



TM
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17 Mar 2012, 10:58 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Aspie_Chav wrote:
Is marrage is going obsolite. The state is continually replacing the role of the man as a provider. Males become very agressive and competitive to attract women that do not need them to support their children. And since being a bad boy is seen as attractive to the opposite sex, then that is what unattached men aspire to. This happens very quickly in a socialist state.


Huh? I'm a lover, not a fighter, so I hardly came across as aggressive and competitive when I met my wife. On top of that, my wife thinks of that sort of individual you described as an as*hole.
By the way, socialist states such as New Zealand and the countries of northern Europe hardly produces masses of such men.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


As a resident of one of said Northern European socialist countries, he's right. It's a slow change but the "We'll just breed and let the government pay" movement is getting quite active around here. Some immigrants from a set of countries also tend to have 5 - 8 kids which with the welfare system means that they get about 1 - 1.2 times a median income in support from the state.

About your wife, when women look to get married, have kids or be in a long term relationship they tend to go for the provider/protector type and when they are just looking for sex, they prefer the bad boy.



androbot2084
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17 Mar 2012, 11:16 am

Of course the state will replace the Man as the provider. A child will have a thousand Mothers and a thousand fathers. Each Mother will have a thousand children that she loves as her own as nobody will be born but rather hatched.



androbot2084
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17 Mar 2012, 11:55 am

The Church says what I am proposing will destroy the family. But what kind of family do we have right now? What we have is the nuclear family which either swims or sinks when times get tough. If the family were expanded to include the whole of society would that not provide better security?



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17 Mar 2012, 2:05 pm

TM wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Aspie_Chav wrote:
Is marrage is going obsolite. The state is continually replacing the role of the man as a provider. Males become very agressive and competitive to attract women that do not need them to support their children. And since being a bad boy is seen as attractive to the opposite sex, then that is what unattached men aspire to. This happens very quickly in a socialist state.


Huh? I'm a lover, not a fighter, so I hardly came across as aggressive and competitive when I met my wife. On top of that, my wife thinks of that sort of individual you described as an as*hole.
By the way, socialist states such as New Zealand and the countries of northern Europe hardly produces masses of such men.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


As a resident of one of said Northern European socialist countries, he's right. It's a slow change but the "We'll just breed and let the government pay" movement is getting quite active around here. Some immigrants from a set of countries also tend to have 5 - 8 kids which with the welfare system means that they get about 1 - 1.2 times a median income in support from the state.

About your wife, when women look to get married, have kids or be in a long term relationship they tend to go for the provider/protector type and when they are just looking for sex, they prefer the bad boy.


Well, my wife certainly didn't fall into either of those stereotypes - I'm certainly not a bad boy, and at the time we got married, I was on unemployment. So, I guess she just fell in love with me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer