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Robdemanc
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14 Apr 2012, 6:56 am

Do you think that the recession is being prolonged because those in charge and with money are letting it? I wonder if it suits them to have us all worried and fearful of jobs, homes, security etc.

They could do something to get things going, invest and create jobs. But they all seem reluctant to do anything.



ruveyn
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14 Apr 2012, 6:58 am

It will last as long as the Great Depression would have lasted if a war had not brewed in Europe. I would say 10 - 15 years.

In any case a generation of economic depression will produce some marked political changes.

ruveyn



TM
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14 Apr 2012, 7:14 am

The reason its longer than needed in the US is mainly due to Republicans. The response to a slow-down in private spending needs to be offset by government spending ala Keynes.



simon_says
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14 Apr 2012, 8:39 am

The actual recession ended years ago. This is just slow growth.



ruveyn
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14 Apr 2012, 8:42 am

TM wrote:
The reason its longer than needed in the US is mainly due to Republicans. The response to a slow-down in private spending needs to be offset by government spending ala Keynes.


Keynes did not advocate increasing indebtedness ad infinitum. He advocated fiscal stimulation when the economy sagged and taxing off some of the increment when the economy picked up. Keynes advocated something like the ballast system used on ships to damp oscillations.

ruveyn



TM
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14 Apr 2012, 9:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
The reason its longer than needed in the US is mainly due to Republicans. The response to a slow-down in private spending needs to be offset by government spending ala Keynes.


Keynes did not advocate increasing indebtedness ad infinitum. He advocated fiscal stimulation when the economy sagged and taxing off some of the increment when the economy picked up. Keynes advocated something like the ballast system used on ships to damp oscillations.

ruveyn


The problem is that Keynes wasn't followed in good times, but was in bad. IE Keynes advocated raising taxes in good times so that fiscal stimuli would be possible in bad times, however when you cut taxes in good times it results in not having the funds to properly do enact Keynesian policy in bad times as you said. I agree that debt is a problem, but it has to be weighed in that either way you end up increasing debt. If you do it by stimulative measures the economy tends to pick up, whereas if you don't you still have to pay unemployment, food stamps etc.



PM
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14 Apr 2012, 1:05 pm

When the "War on Terror" is over, the recession will be over.


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TM
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14 Apr 2012, 1:22 pm

PM wrote:
When the "War on Terror" is over, the recession will be over.


End The war on terror and the war on drugs, then legalize and tax marijuana and the recession is over. Legalize prostitution in every state and it'll be over even sooner.



PM
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14 Apr 2012, 1:46 pm

TM wrote:
PM wrote:
When the "War on Terror" is over, the recession will be over.


End The war on terror and the war on drugs, then legalize and tax marijuana and the recession is over. Legalize prostitution in every state and it'll be over even sooner.


It's called the Forever War for a reason.


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androbot2084
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14 Apr 2012, 1:57 pm

War could have been made obsolete centuries ago. Its called surrender.



Jacoby
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14 Apr 2012, 4:22 pm

Well we're not technically in a recession although we'll likely fall back into it once the inevitable happens in Europe. Then it will get really bad.



TM
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14 Apr 2012, 5:12 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Well we're not technically in a recession although we'll likely fall back into it once the inevitable happens in Europe. Then it will get really bad.


I kind of suspect that we are nearing the end of the current bull market and heading into a bear market soon based on historical data but it depends if we're in the 2009 bull market or if a new bull market started in October/November.



scubasteve
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15 Apr 2012, 11:23 am

simon_says wrote:
The actual recession ended years ago. This is just slow growth.


I don't know about years, but at least for the past year or so, things seem to be healing... It's not like someone's going to announce "Ok, depression's over, back to work everybody!" :) It is a process.



ArrantPariah
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15 Apr 2012, 11:42 am

http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/ ... 28876.html

China is coming back, so the rest of the world will come back with it.

Seriously, the recession is over. Unemployment has stabilized at around 10 percent. Get over it.



HisDivineMajesty
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15 Apr 2012, 12:47 pm

In the United States, any recession that might be in place will be over soon. Back in Europe, we're dealing with riots and financial misery due to governments cutting budgets in order to appease investors. In my opinion, all of Europe should just tell them to sod off and stick their debt papers where they belong. Basically, we should tell the European Union the same thing - it's just the bully boy for investors and a tool for neoliberalism.
Even where I live, in one of the wealthier parts of the European Union, people seem genuinely angry, and life for a large majority of people has become harder due to European integration.

Basically, it's the shadow side of the Industrial Revolution all over again, only internationally. In the nineteenth century, people moved from the countryside to the city in order to live in cramped housing and pressure labour markets in favour of employers. Now, it's the European Union encouraging people from Eastern Europe to move to Western Europe to work there legally for well below minimum wage and pressure local employees either into working more than legally allowed in physically-intensive jobs or becoming part of the growing army of unemployed who vote for populist parties. Most things the European Union does favour only employers and investors.

As said in a newspaper here recently, European governments and institutions know how to mindlessly spend less, but not how to earn more. Basically, due to budget cuts, the recession is deepened and prolonged, which means there's much less income through taxes and therefore an even higher deficit. That's been going on for almost five years now, and I hardly even remember what they used to say before they said 'you should all cost less and give us more money so we can reduce our national debt, which is still rising'. They're blaming the people, but the ones in charge are to blame, and they generally go against their voters' wishes when it comes to budget cuts and European integration.



ruveyn
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15 Apr 2012, 7:40 pm

TM wrote:
The reason its longer than needed in the US is mainly due to Republicans. The response to a slow-down in private spending needs to be offset by government spending ala Keynes.


Do you think the Democrats and their inclination to increase the debt is helping matters?

ruveyn