Bible and holocaust

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I know that the verses I am going to quote are intended for a different context so I am not claiming to be right or anything. I am just feeling it might be interesting to contemplate on some of the parallels between these verses and the holocaust. Once again, please don't read more than there is since I just admitted that these verses are intended for a different context. I guess the point is that it seems somewhat prophetic that what was written 2 millenia ago happened to match some of the ASPECTS of the holocaust. Anyway, here it goes:

Now, as you know, the people in the New Testament adressed as hypocrites are Jews. Now, the verse says that they DISFIGURE THEIR FACES. In other words, we are talking about something visible, like the facial expression as opposed to words or anything else. The first time photographs could be taken are 20-th century, and this narrows it down to pretty much saying that most of the photographs of sad looking Jews are comming from holocaust. So the statement being made is that the Jews in the holocuast photographs and films were "disfiguring their faces". Why were they doing it? In order to be seen by men to be "fasting". Again, sounds like holocaust alright, given that these Jews wanted to be seen to be STARVING. Finally, what happened to them as a result of doing it? They "had their reward". So did the Jews after the holocaust were rewarded by huge monetary compensations that the holocaust survuvers are receiving from Germans, the free visa every Jew is offered to migrate to Germany from soviet union, and of course the sate of Israel. All this "reward" is due to these photos, after all the reason Koreans didn't got any reward for being persecutted by Japaneeze is probably because they havne't made as many photos of their plight.

Now, Jews are all getting mad by "holocaust deniers" who presumably say that the holocaust never happened. Now, let us see who were the first "holocaust deniers" (or at least more ancient than any of the ones we would typically speak of)



WOW. So they are saying that they have NEVER been slaves to Egyptians or Babylonians, let alone the Romans whom they were CURRENTLY paying taxes. That was quite a bit of denial.

Another interesting thing is a significance of star of David sewed on clothes or the tatoo that Nazi were forcing the Jews to wear. Namely, it is interesting to consider its parallel to mark of the beast. Once agian, I know this wasn't mark of the beast since it wasn't an end time, but it is interesting to see a parallel.



In case of mark of the beast, no one can "buy or sell" unless he has it. As far as Jews, they could have immigrated from Germany well before holocaust ever started -- Einstein was one example of Jew who done it. Most Jews didn't immigrate because they wanted to hold on to their jobs and homes, i.e. they wanted to "buy or sell". As a consequence of their desire to continue to "buy or sell" they were forced to wear a "mark of the beast" (i.e. a star of david and tatoo).

The similarity to 666 is clear given that the star of david has a pentagon of 6 sides, 6 vorteces, and 6 triangles attached to it. There were a lot of studies done that were showing the 666 embedded within star of david. In fact I have heard that Star of David was NOT originally a Jewish thing. Rather it was a pagan thing that pagans used to place curses or something. The Jews embraced this symbol largelly as a memory of the holocaust, which agian points to the thing of buying and selling because their intention to preserve that memory is to get monetary compensations.

And finally look at this one:




Now, we have to look at these key things:

a)Worship to the beast
b)wrath of god
c)fire and brimstone
d)smoke of the torment

In case of holocaust the answers are quite clear. First of all, Hitler WAS in fact worshipped by the German people. Even though they weren't Jewish, the fact that you have to worship the beast OR get a mark, where OR is used instead of AND, sets up enough room for Germans to be condemned for worshipping hitler, and Jews to be condemned for receiving his mark. Furthermore, who is to say Jews weren't worshipping him? I have heard that there were some ties between Hitler and Zionists and in fact it was part of the agreement that the Jews whom Hitler won't succeed in killing will get a land of Israel.

As for part b, it doesn't say that the wrath of god is FOR taking hte mark. Rather it says that whoever HAPPENED to take a mark will drink out of the cup of "wrath of god" but that "cup" could be made out of wrath for ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. In case of Jews, the wrath of God is for the fact that they killed Jesus christ, since this is what made holocaust possible. But the jewish INDIVIDUALS who would DRINK out of this cup are the ones who receive the mark (i.e. a star of david or tatoo) instead of migrating away from Germany at the cost of giving up buying and selling (i.e. jobs and houses).

As for part c, fire and brimstone refers to gas chambers. And finally in part d the smoke of the torment that ascends FOREVER AND EVER refers to the MEMORY of the holocaust that never vanishes as it is exemplified by everlasting fire in holocaust memorials.

Once again I am fully aware that revelation refers to the end times and Hitler is NOT antichrist since he is dead. But still New Testament is full of TYPES and OVERSHADOWINGS, so Hitler was a TYPE of antichrist and the story presented above is a TYPE of end time scenario.

Another interesting thing is that if indeed the number of Jews who died in holocaust is 6 million, then it is about 2/3 or the European Jewish population which also fulfills biblical prophecy:






The Jews who died in holocaust are "cut off". On the other hand, the ones who have survived are being "refined" through the Messianic Jewish movement which started to flurish on second half of the 20-th century, that is, right after the holocaust.

Anyway, once again I am not saying any of it is rigid evidence, just some interesting htoughts to think about.

>>>>>>Anyway, once again I am not saying any of it is rigid evidence, just some interesting htoughts to think about.

SAT question

Bible is to Evidence

A) Math is to Calculator
B) Chicken is to feathers
C) Lie is to Truth
D) None of the above

Well to be honest there is an interesting historical view of the Jewish people which has led to some actual archaeological finds but predicting the future I don't think so so I'd have to answer a D

The bible is an ancient plagerised book of mythology. I would'nt use it to predict anything, especially since so many prophecies in the bible never came true.

The bible is a mix of the profound, the common and the insane, On the balance not a very useful book. It shows a god if he/she/it exists as a brutal, petty small minded thug . A nasty tribal war god who clearly was made up to allow some truly awful actions to take place and still take place. It brutalizes humankind with it's insane mutterings. Sorry if i offend some of you but read it. It's damming proof of what i mean. As for the holocaust Xian theos after world war two studied why it happened. It happen towards jewish theos due to the teaching of hate towards that world view for 300 years or more. That's right the Xians have blood on their hands but so do jewish theos. Killing in the name of fill in the blank. I hang my head in shame that a human thought up this awful crap. We can do better than this insane book.

the bible is not at all historically accurate. i do not believe any of it litterly happend at all. you can not take the bible litterly! dispite the fundie turds. i am orthodox christian and my priest told me that.

It's my personal belief that aliens put us here, and that all major religions and their writings (bible, kabala, koran, buddhist scriptures, pagan mythologies, etc) were UFO cover-ups. All the "miracles" were advanced technology... Much like if you wander into a tribal community, and pull out a lap top, theyr gonna describe what they see in mythological terms, because it's the only way they know how to explain it. Figure, the aliens are alot more advanced than we are.
But according to my theory, you can find all sorts of interesting things out by reading between the lines of the bible, or the koran, or the kabala, or the buddhist scriptures, etc etc.

alright man if your so uppity and smart, explain to me the ufos in the icons and paintings of christian mythologies as you call them. explain to me why some buddhist temples in japan are now sealed off that look like UFOs and when you walk inside they look like controls to a space ship, and the buddhas look like their are wearing space suits? explain the 12th planet series by zackeria stitchen? explain why they can not explain why dinosaurs and modern human foot prints on volcanic rock from the same time period. you wont becasue your alien idea is the best explaination besides religion there is..

who is to say that god is not an alien?????????? your idea is messed up because god is what you wanna call an alien... blasphemer! lol

you guys should read about orthodoxy and orthodox dogma, i had lots of doubts about the bible a priest destroyed my missunderstandings. now i understand it and the way to make sense of it all. people lack the understanding especially protestants nad catholics. born orthodox usally don't eather.
religion is a system of though and conduct. many take the bible way too harshly and litterly. if you do not like following rules and like to live life haphazardly you can misunderstand the bible all day and deny the simple life of it.

I believe the reference to "disfiguring" faces refers to the tradition of smearing ash and dust on one's face to look as though one has not bathed (such as when one is in mourning). The Greek reads "aphanizo" which literally means to hide or disappear.

I do not believe this is a reference to the Holocaust, though there certainly are many such prophetic references in the Torah/ OT. The "reward" Jesus is referring to is the admiration of others for their hollow ascetism.

I believe some prophecies in the bible might have multiple fulfillments, because if I look I can see a lot of parallel between many different things. In this light, none of what you said would negate any of what I said about hte interpretation of the passage. It might even be that each century has its own example of the fulfillment of that verse.

Traditionally in Judaism, there are four different possible interpretations of any given passage in Torah. These correspond to different levels ranging from the literal meaning to the hidden or esoteric meaning. These level are remembered by the acronym PaRDeS ("Garden," or "Paradise"):

Peshat = Literal meaning.
Remez = Allegorical meaning.
Derash = Homiletic meaning; midrashic.
Sod = Mystical or secret meaning.

the bible is not a litteral book, any one that takes it litteraly is a ret*d. it has only spiritual meanings the history is not litteral eather. like king harod he never existed in this world he is a figure in the bible but not real histoy. the world was not created in 6 days and any one that thinks i was is a ret*d. science and the bible are not at odds. darwin is a ret*d for the record. modern humans have always existed. there were not proto-humans. if you want to believe in evolution of man go for it it is racist becasue it places blacks just above apes. biologically blacks have more in common with apes then with other races. so believe in evolution all day if you want, no self respecting black could be a darwinst or a beliver in evolution if you ask me. darwin is in the same boat with hitlers.

A lot of bible and religious study you just have to take at face value. If you dismiss it all as ridiculous from the outset, what's the point? You have to take a few leaps of faith even if just to the point of seeing it as being wrothy of study.

I don't know enough of the Bible to give you an intelligent comment about your post, Roman. However I understand that the Bible is able to be interpreted because it is various people's writing of what they saw or heard, whereas the Koran is the word of Allah and therefore not open to interpretation.

A Presbyterian minister once told me he believed that some storys should not be taken literally. For example about the loaves and fishes - He believed that many people going to hear Jesus brought along a picnic. The miracle therefore was not Jesus making 5 loaves and 2 fishes (or whatever the numbers were) go around many people, but to get many people to share their food with others.

The Bible is (I believe) in part allegory to illustrate or emphasise the authors' point. Other parts are a historical record.

I believe the Bible is about teaching us how to live, not about prophecies or crystal ball gazing.

Thank you for mentioning this point. I am in the process of questioning my own faith and this is something I was contemplating from time to time but I never got around to actually studying on Orthodox Christianity. So now that I have an apportunity let me ask you few questions on that:

So you mentioned that you don't believe in literal interpretation of the bible. How about church fathers? I guess I vaguely know the "catholic" argument that due to the fact that bible has so many different interpretations, you have to listen to church fathers in terms of knowing which one is right. But I am not sure whether or not ORthodox christians hold the same view on church fathers as catholics do, let alone the fact that I might not be too familiar with catholic argument. So are you saying they are inerrant, or are you saying they might also make mistakes just like bible does, and they are merely "human guides" that would complement for the "guidence" within pages of teh bible?

By the way I remember you mentioned that not only protestants are off the mark but catholics are off the mark as well. So what is the difference between Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity other than the fact that one trusts pope and the other trusts arch bishop? I know both groups differ from protestants in a sense taht protestants believe in "bible alone" while both Orthodox and Catholics believe in church fathers. But are there otehr differences though, because you did mention that you have a problem with catholics too? So do catholics believe in literal interpretation of the bible, or do they agree with Orthodox that it shouldn't be taken literally?

And finally, how do you make sense of the passages where Jesus was preaching against following the "traditions of men"? Doesn't it seem to refute both Orthodox and Catholic position?

Also how do you make sense of Matt 7:13 that says only few are saved? I mean there are more than few Orthodox? Actually this is the question I was also asking to Protestants and never got satisfactory answer which is the very reason I am trying to explore other faiths. So I am hopping that there is some kind of Orthodox answer to Matt 7:13 that would be more satisfactory than Protestant one.

Finally, are you Russian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox? Given that I am from Russia, I know somewhat more about Russian Orthodox. So if I were to become Russian Orthodox does it mean I am to believe in all the past Czars? I guess this would open Pandora's box in terms of questions such as why were the Czars overthrown by Russian revolution and stuff like that. Also, I don't really like the idea of basing my faith on history of one country (whether it be Russia if I am Russian Orthodox or Greece if I am Greek Orthodox) because Jesus said that his comming is like a lightning that from east shines all the way onto the west. But once again I don't know much about these faiths, so these aer all questions rather than statemets.