God sacrificed his only son to absolve our sins???

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Amongst the many beliefs christians adhere to this one really confounds me. Firstly, god did not sacrifice his only son, according to christian belief Jesus gets taken off the cross and then a day or so later gets up,heads out of the cave, says G'day to all his mates, then heads on home.

Secondly an all powerful god can think of no better way to forgive our transgressions than to brutally torture his son??? The same son who some believe (just to really compound the inconsistencies of the story) is god himself.

Can someone please try to explain where my thought processes have gone awry, because surely billions of christians cant be hoodwinked by the story as I perceive it.

It was part of an arcane ritual needed for Jesus' ascension to Lichdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitutionary_atonement

From what I understand, as far as theories, substitutionary atonement is actually a rather latecomer to the ballgame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_theory_of_atonement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor

For some further reading on the subject. It's a bit complex to explain in a little messageboard post, but those two things should be enough of a springboard for you to go off.

But yeah, Satisfaction wasn't really on the radar as a viewpoint (unless you count possibly Augustine's writings) in Christianity until 1100s or 1200s. But, books upon books have been written about the subject, and yeah...

The real way to understand this is to think of God's psychology.

PRESTO = = > Humans, the earth, etc, etc.



PRESTO === > Stupid moral dynamics
PRESTO === > Painful childbirth for women



PRESTO == > Jesus



That, in a NUTshell, is Trintarian theology.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dup6xkvj1S0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]
relevant part starts about 20 minutes in, but the whole thing is fun.

Two scenarios come to mind.

1 Everything in the Bible is true, and the people who wrote it were inspired by the god of the Bible with the entire text. Same for the translators.

Or...

2 Early scriptural writings were a mishmash of deluded people and others trying to sway people to give power to certain people, like religious hierarchy. Later scriptural writings were made up to justify the bizarre and contradictory nature of the earlier writings. Kind of like telling a lie and needing more and more elaborate lies to explain the earlier ones. Some of it might actually be based on historical facts, but subject to interpretation. How much of this is literal and how much metaphorical? Unfortunately, none of the original authors are around to interview.

The Bible says that I must accept what the Bible says or face consequences. I would say scenario number 2 is more likely despite this warning to believe in the truth of the Bible.

Child sacrifice is just a recurring motif in the myths and religions of the area. The Canaanites and Phoenicians practiced it, and modern archaeology and anthropology seems to suggest that the Hebrews were an offshoot of Canaanite culture. It would also seem that the Hebrews themselves practiced it from time to time, particularly in connection with the Valley of Hinnom. See for instance Ezek. 20:25-26, not to mention numerous accounts of Israelites making child sacrifice to pagan gods as well (eg 1 Kgs. 11:7-8, 2 Kings. 3:26-27, 2 Kgs. 17:16-18, 2 Kgs. 16:2-3, 2 Kings 17:7, 2 Kgs. 21:6, 2 Chron. 33:6, 2 Kgs. 23:10, Jer. 32:35, Jer. 19:3-5, Ezek. 16:20-21)

I took a sledgehammer to the torso for your mortgage.

Jesus is the Lich King?

I think that religions are supposed to be absurd. Otherwise, what would be the point of faith?

I'm getting a little tired of all the blasphemy. That's all I want to say right now. I don't think it proves or conveys anything except what is in the hearts of those who speak it.

Jesus: "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies..." (Matt 15:19)

Maybe it is because people refused to forgive one another and demanded justice was the reason why Jesus took on all the sins.

So let me see if I get this Christus Victor stuff right... Jesus has become a reverse concept of some sort? So basically he is the allegory of any person caught in true belief in religion. In essence, those who believed Jesus died for their sins in a mystical transsubstantiation thingy or remain ignorant of the real allegory are actually the ones who are suffering in ignorance. It is they who are suffering because all are taught religion in one form or another and if you aren't the people they like, they don't tell you how it works. So the "evil" people suffer in ignorance and identifiable to all those who are judged to be "good" by their understanding of communication? No wonder there are so many Atheist Aspies. Does anyone else see what's going on here?

I think this is rather something of a torture. But I guess this is what they allegory it to... Still it is a very disgusting way of raising children. I'll be sure to make sure mine are Atheists... So how do you tell someone that their story tells a different story?

Like I said: religions are supposed to be absurd.

It's the first one, but god is just the people, human beings playing god by creating the social pretense of their belief in god which is really themselves! It's all circular and stuff... They justify themselves. Religion in effect trains the "good" people to be sociopaths through their acceptance of god and the system of belief. The system of religion is in fact no less a system than anything else that might be termed a system. To be clear it is a system nearly equal in size and power to the internet.

That's the beauty of free speech, though, isn't it? It means we can say whatever we like; it doesn't mean you have to listen. If you somehow feel our citation of historical facts and trends in your own holy book is corrupting you, you can stop reading the offending posts/thread and call it a day.

In the meantime, let the theorizing continue!