Calling all marxists
Sweetleaf
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do you think capitalism is the greatest evil (more so the religion)?
talk about it here.
Liberals are welcome.
I'm personally a democratic socialist.
All the so-called "evils" of Capitalism existed before Capitalism. They are -human- evils.
Absolutely. No matter the system put in place human nature dictates the strong will find a way to elaborately twist it to their favor.
It's only "evil" to those who are getting the short end of it, I see it as the nature of life. Evolution, mating, and securing a foothold in the chaos of reality is all just a manifestation of the drive for survival. Of course multiplied by our recent overwhelming population growth, kept unchecked it is potentially disastrous to our human sustaining eco system.
Because all the worst traits of humanity are just 'human nature' and any of the nicer traits are weak and should be beat out of everyone. claiming human nature as justification whenever someone brings up the problems with systems in place is well not a very good analysis. I am still convinced a lot of this whole idea about trying to be the biggest, baddest dog in the pack with the biggest pile of bones is conditioned and not some infallible part of human nature......in fact I would say that sort of behavior would be more like the animal nature coming out not so much the human nature.
As for your assumption, it's not just those that are worse off who disagree with this system....but even if it truly was only the worse off who saw the flaws in this system...what of it? That means nothing should be changed and those who take an issue with the system and are struggling just to make a living should just be treated like they don't exist because the system works for some but as a whole kind of fails when it comes to providing an environment everyone has the opportunity to thrive in.
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Sweetleaf
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The reason why jobs that require certain educations pay better is because a limited number of people can do them, anyone can do manual labor provided they do not have physical handicaps.
Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.
If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.
techstepgenr8tion
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Actually what scares me about government is this is its common occurrence. If nepotism happens within a family business then that business sinks on its own merits, if nepotism happens in government accounting or treasury you have a few mils raised on your property taxes or your water bill triples.
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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
ruveyn
This is interesting. Just for fun, can people in this thread post their age?
I am more than old enough to have outgrown socialism and marxism. Even so, I do not LOVE capitalism.
ruveyn
Actually what scares me about government is this is its common occurrence. If nepotism happens within a family business then that business sinks on its own merits, if nepotism happens in government accounting or treasury you have a few mils raised on your property taxes or your water bill triples.
It's a common occurrence in social democratic governed countries, because there is among the social-democratic parties a certain "Party-book before School-book" attitude. Hence why both Sweden and Norway, have had finance ministers without an economic education or experience from social democratic parties on several occasions.
Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.
If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.
I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.
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Double X and proud of it / male pronouns : he, him, his
Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.
If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.
I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.
I know you're confusing "difficult" with "risky". In effect, the tasks required to perform in a manual job are not difficult to do, if they were, then manual labor jobs would be paid better (and those with risks tend to be) because the supply of labor would go down, meaning more demand for each unit of labor.
Your point? I actually have proclaimed for most of my life that they need to be paid better. I'm not confusing difficult with risky, you're still underestimating difficulty to the point of ignoring it. Let's take the example of building - is handling bricks not difficult? If you say no, what are you basing it on?
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Double X and proud of it / male pronouns : he, him, his
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.
If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.
I don't know that all manual labor is as simple as shoveling crap, and Microsoft excel is a pretty easy program to use, so I don't know that such a job is more difficult then manual labor. Also must I mention the toll manual labor can take on the physical body, surely the pay should reflect those health risks....though from what I've seen a lot of times it hardly seems to.
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Sweetleaf
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Age: 34
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Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
ruveyn
It's funny how people twist things so that maturity and growing up becomes synonymous with which ever opinions they have. So everyone should grow up by eventually sharing all the same views you do? You're not the ultimate authority on sense anyways.
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We won't go back.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Give a banker a shovel and he can shovel crap as well as the next guy.
Give a manual labor worker Microsoft Excel and tell him or her to balance a government budget (IE manage resources) and you have a recipe for disaster.
If manual labor was actually difficult, then manual labor jobs would pay Wall Street salaries and any person with an IQ of 80 and no education wouldn't be able to do them.
I think you're underestimating manual labour. Is that why there are so many injuries, accidents and deaths in manual labour? It's not only hard, but it involves an actual health risk.
I know you're confusing "difficult" with "risky". In effect, the tasks required to perform in a manual job are not difficult to do, if they were, then manual labor jobs would be paid better (and those with risks tend to be) because the supply of labor would go down, meaning more demand for each unit of labor.
That is a very inaccurate claim to make. If we had a competent system that did not simply serve to cater to the well off and corporate interests while screwing everyone else over via crap wages, and outsourcing for instance those jobs would be paid better.....it has nothing to do with it not being difficult work which I still don't see how one can say physical labor is not hard work.
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