Is Jesus a Model for Citizenship?

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http://news.yahoo.com/michelle-obama-ci ... itics.html

Only a blind follower of Saul Alinsky could characterize what Jesus was doing as "Democratic Organizing".

In the days when Jesus lived there was no Democracy. Athens had long since declined and even Athenian "democracy" was only for the few. A sixth of Athens population had any political rights and they were all males.

ruveyn

More to the point, the Athenians would not describe our system as "democratic".

From Roman sources, the Germanic tribes of that day had had popular assemblies where free men of arms baring age voted on major matters at hand - whether to go to war, whether to migrate to greener pastures, to elect a king/chief or war leader, to observe legal and religious matters, etc. Unfortunately, counterbalancing this democratic tradition were tribal nobles who had gathered around themselves private retinues of warriors who would swear indisputable obedience to them. And in following centuries, as these personal retinues of fighting men became more and more the primary tribal armies as the wealth of these nobles increased exponentially through contact with the Roman world, the commoner's tribal assembly diminished. By the Middle Ages, the commoners had become peasants with no political power.
Sorry to get off subject, but I felt my Aspie obsessions struggling to get out, once the matter of ancient democracies was brought up.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

They would describe our system as extremely stupid.

ruveyn

Jesus was all for people being nice to each other and helping each other out, and those qualities are useful in a citizenry.
On the other hand, I don't get the impression that Jesus was a patriotic guy. I don't think he was much interested in politics, and I certainly can't see him serving in someone's military.
So, I voted "so-so".

Jesus is a better model for how to be a good person than for how to be a good citizen.

True, but one could also look at this as an interval in some cases. Among the Saxons, the tribal assembly was originally the folkmoot, a democratic assembly of the type you describe. This evolved into the Witenagemot, which evolved into the curia regis, which evolved into Parliament. Coming full circle.

The Jesus of Revelations is very well armed. You would not want to tangle with Him. He is a kick a** savior.

ruveyn

But Revelations is at best a minor book not meant to be taken too literally - at worst, a pack of nonsense that should never have been canonized.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

But was parliament the descendant of the folkmoot of the commoners? Tacitus and Caesar had described an assembly of nobles among the ancient Germans that had taken care of everyday, humdrum matters. This body continued to exist through out the ages, and is probably the ancestor of modern day European tradition of parliaments.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I thought they would descrbe the modern system as a republic.

Last edited by Tollorin on 04 Jul 2012, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hehe

He's not the worst model, but he's not really a good model in many ways either. I mean, he spent a lot of time as an itinerant wanderer. He violated the central principles of Roman government in his denial of the Roman gods(which led to his followers being persecution). He really didn't spend his time trying to alter the government, and this is not seen in the Christian scriptures either. He was eventually killed by that government in a relatively complicated situation. I mean, I'm not saying he's a criminal or villain, but he's not an ideal model of citizenship, and while we see questionable actions, we don't see offsetting solid traits.

Edit: Also that money-changers in the temple thing does strike one as likely illegal in most societies.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 04 Jul 2012, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe in a way Jesus answered this question when he said render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and render unto God what is Gods. I had to think about this for a long time but I think it means Jesus didn't want himself or his message to be interpreted through a political lens. He was apolitical.

I always thought if we all followed Jesus, there would be no government, no law, no notions of citizenship. There would be no need for such things. It is human inperfection that makes us need those things.

His conduct seemed to be peaceful which is good. Though there was the notable exception of the money changers in front of the temple. I guess even Jesus can't stand bankers.

Jesus is a great psychologist and healer. We would all be better off if we tried to be like him. He sounds like a fabulous person!