Understanding Feminism (Women: Your opinions)

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I never wanted those things.

Why would I need a man to open a door for me? I can open it myself.
Why would I want a man to stand when I enter a room? I don't even know why people do that.

no-one is

How did you figure out that he was straight?

He talked about his girlfriend and getting married and wanting kids.

He could've been bi, I guess.

Would anyone else soil their pantaloons if men stood up everytime they walked into a room? I think I might.

It might just be Texas, but I've never had a man walk through a door when I've held one open, it turns into a showdown and they get kind of aggressive about it and eventually I'm like "ALRIGHT I GIVE IN, LADIES F**KING FIRST" and it is pretty annoying.

Also there are lots of gender segregated groups here in the U.S., I think. That may just be Texas, though. The masons, there is a female version of it but I forget what they are called, maybe the sparkly glitter she dragons(I could be wrong!) and the Catholics aren't supposed to be masons so they have the knights of columbus, there are loads of gender segregated conservative groups. And there are loads of groups that aren't specifically for men but female members face hostility.

Ohhh, gender segregation! When I was ten my friend(also a female) and I were FED UP with the crappy playground equipment at the Girls Club(uh I don't know what group funds the girls and boys club of america) and we discovered from my brother that the paperwork involved in joining the Boys Club said females and males both were welcome, and we joined the Boys Club.

The staff were all either amused or angry and they watched us like hawks, and within a week we were kicked out for being "sexually provocative" which is absurd and my Bubby made quite a fuss over her ten year old granddaughter being called sexually provocative. She mostly wanted to set an example for me not to allow myself to be treated like that. However, being ten, I had no idea what "sexually provocative" meant, and I was CERTAIN I had had sex and didn't even realize it. My friend also thought this was what it meant and we tried so hard to determine WHAT this mysterious sex thing was. Eventually we asked my Bubby what sex was and inevitably I was told by my Bubby maybe the most traumatizing information possible.

It was only afterward that she realized why I was asking what sex was. By then the damage had been done and I was thoroughly convinced men were evil.

Maybe I should be grateful for gender segregation, it ultimately lead to me being scared to have sex until I was bright enough not to get knocked up

I have no idea why you, or any other woman, would want that. But I do know that I'm accused of being rude when I don't do it.

Whether most women want it or not, most men (or most that I know, at least) are trained from a very young age to treat them better (in a wide variety of ways, not just opening doors and the like) than they treat other men.

That is true, but I don't think that stems from feminism. It's kind of condescending and I don't see how treating us like fragile creatures who need special treatment is considered treating us BETTER. Acting like we're made of unicorn farts and candy floss and kittens is really a way of treating us as if we're inferior.

I once was on the bus when a man started arguing with another man about courtesy. He was yelling at the man to let ladies go first, and started talking about reviving chauvinism. I was wondering why it would matter so much to anyone.

True. At least the part where feminism opposes this.

But men are taught from a young age to put women's needs ahead of their own, to treat them better. And there are many women out there who still expect this sort of treatment.

We are taught by one side that we must give women preferential treatment, and by the other that such treatment is disrespectful. No matter which path we follow, we will have one group of women or the other telling us that we don't respect them.

Can you see how this might be confusing to us? It's a no win situation for men, and it's not surprising (to me, anyway) that being put in that position breeds a certain amount of resentment.

Edit: And this is not even counting the small percentage of women who seem to expect both. Who expect to be treated as if they are just as capable as men yet, at the same time, expect to have doors held for them, to have their meals paid for, etc.

On the whole, men are receiving very mixed messages from women about how women are to be treated.

Edit again: I actually agree with you that we ought to treat women exactly the same as we would treat other men. But I think it would be helpful (for men and women both) if both groups of women, feminist and "traditional," would cut men a bit of slack when it comes to this issue. For men, it would lessen the feeling that we can't get it right no matter what we do. And women would have that much less resentment from men to deal with.

I don't mean to sound like think I am entitled to speak for other women and I don't want other women to take it upon themselves to speak for me.

I'm not offended when a man holds the door for me, I'm grateful, it's a very polite thing to do for anyone. But where I live, men will not stand for it if I try to hold the door for them, they will refuse to go through the door and some get pretty hostile, as if I have challenged their masculinity or something. THAT is really insulting. I know not all men do that and my experience is limited to Texas.

It's the idea that men and women have set identities in society that bothers me.

I agree. I think those little displays of courtesy should be appreciated by whomever they are directed at, rather than being taken as an insult based on their gender. And at the same, no one should just expect that sort of treatment based on their gender.

And yeah, I think it might be different based on location. Around here, men don't expect that from women, but I've never seen one offended by it.

QFT.
this is about 70% of 'what feminism means' to me.
The only aspect that I would add, is that I don't like the belittling of either gender just because they're that gender: tv adds or shows where men are played as idiots because they're men, jokes about women's driving because they're women. It's basically a way society says, 'don't even try to do better at housework/understanding the opposite sex/driving, because we won't respect you regardless.'

Sort of like how women receive mixed messages about the virgin/whore dichotomy? If we have sex, we're sluts. If we don't, we're frigid.

If we help pay for meals, we're 'emasculating.*' If we don't, we're parasitic.

*my current boyfriend actually told me this, in so many words. It's an ongoing argument between us.

I suspect I would like feminism a lot better if it were more about this and less about being PC and using 'correct' terminology and verbiage.

I have only ever seen one guy hold a car door for his girlfriend once here in Australia - and I watched him get yelled at by her for it too.
I tend to open or hold open doors for both genders, for the group I am with or whoever is behind me, it's just a courtesy thing for me and an ingrained habit.
But it's not done here - I've never been told off for doing it from either men or women, but I have recieved a lot of surprised and confused looks.

I completely understand why guys are confused on points like these - personally I never expect anyone to do stuff like that for me, but I would always find a way to thank them if they went to the trouble of doing so and I do appreciate people who think of others in general and have manners or show courtsey. I don't see the point in yelling at them or getting mad at them for it - I understand why some women don't appreciate it, but there are better ways of dealing with that than screaming at them or getting into an agruement, especially if their intentions are good.