Do Theism and Politics Correlate in this forum?

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22 Aug 2012, 4:54 pm

It the NT world there is a correlation between religiousness and conservative politics.
There seem to be quite a few right-wing atheists here.

The poll has four options

Believer and Right
Believer and Left
Non-believer and Right
Non-believer and Left

for the proposes of this survey we are using the terms are they are used in common speech.
market libertarians, american republicans, nationalists, tea party folks and the like are right wing.
Anarchists, commies, democrats are left wing.
If you are an absolute centrist and are an american call yourself right otherwise left.
(if you want to argue about it start a new topic.
The first five special snowflakes to say the right left spectrum does not describe them get atomic wedgies )

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ruveyn
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22 Aug 2012, 6:28 pm

None of the above.

ruveyn

Vexcalibur
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22 Aug 2012, 6:41 pm

Define right and left.

In the US I am considered "left" . But that is only because the US is a place where the center right has epic battles against the far right.

In my own place, I am actually in the right side of politics.

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AngelRho
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22 Aug 2012, 8:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:

None of the above.

ruveyn

Atomic wedgie for you!! ! :twisted:

thewhitrbbit
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22 Aug 2012, 8:49 pm

Aren't anarchists technically farther right than libertarians?

I am socially liberal and center-right fiscally.

Canaspie
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22 Aug 2012, 8:57 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:

Aren't anarchists technically farther right than libertarians?

I am socially liberal and center-right fiscally.

I could be wrong, but I remember learning in political science that anarchists aren't really right or left. If you go far enough right or left on the spectrum, you can end up reaching anarchy from the left or the right, so you can consider them either way

ruveyn
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22 Aug 2012, 9:10 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:

Aren't anarchists technically farther right than libertarians?

I am socially liberal and center-right fiscally.

Anarchists reject the State, and reject government.

ruveyn

RocketPeacock
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22 Aug 2012, 10:48 pm

I think the problem is that anarchists (and, for that matter, libertarians) are not accurately described as right and left. You need an up and a down as well. Usually, more personal liberty=up and more free market economy=right. So you'd have a libertarian at the top right, an American conservative in the bottom right, a liberal at the top left, etc. On most charts, most people find themselves at the center, as fascism, totalitarian communism, and anarchism lie at various edges.

So anyone who isn't a party line Democrat or a Republican cannot be described in one dimension, they need two. Left vs. Right puts some people in a confusing situation. That said, the way this is done makes it a lot easier make a poll and process the data, and enough people fall along party lines that this should generate a fair amount of information, at least about the sort of people who respond to voluntary polls.

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23 Aug 2012, 7:48 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:

Aren't anarchists technically farther right than libertarians?

I am socially liberal and center-right fiscally.

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AceOfSpades
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23 Aug 2012, 8:13 am

I'm a right wing atheist. Somewhat libertarian but libertarian ideology is just a rule of thumb to me rather than a one size fits all.

JakobVirgil
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24 Aug 2012, 2:54 pm

I would like a larger group size.
But right now it looks like we gotta phi of 0.48
Which means that even in aspies there is a correlation between
having conservative politics and believing in God.
Will it hold up?

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SpiritBlooms
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24 Aug 2012, 3:24 pm

Believer and Left. But "believer" can cover a lot of ground, and I don't consider myself the typical believer. For one I am not at all interested in organized religion, which isn't really belief so much as it's organization and hierarchy with belief as a theme. To me belief is ultra-personal, and my beliefs are personal and somewhat unique to me. I walk my own path, and no religious leader is going to even suggest to me how I should vote. I find that idea reprehensible, and I feel that any church or religious organization in the US that does that should lose its tax-free status - and maybe shouldn't have one to begin with.

GreenShadow
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25 Aug 2012, 5:24 am

Looking at this:

I'm in right wing (libertarian/minarchist) and I'm absolute unbeliever

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25 Aug 2012, 5:42 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:

Aren't anarchists technically farther right than libertarians?

Generally, not.

Traditional anarchism emerged from a schism within the socialist movement between Marxian Communists and Anarchists. Marxians wanted to acquire the state apparatus, use it to smash private property (but not personal property - i.e. small possessions like toothbrushes that do not relate to the means of production - factories). Marxians than assumed the state would swivel up and die after the abolition of private property and the establishment of a egalitarian distribution of resources.

Anarchists, by contrast, wanted to abolish the state and then, somehow, abolish private property.

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25 Aug 2012, 5:49 am

Quote:

Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (French pronunciation: [pjɛʁ ʒɔzɛf pʁudɔ̃]; 15 January 1809 – 19 January 1865) was a French politician, mutualist philosopher, economist, and socialist. He was a member of the French Parliament and the first person to call himself an "anarchist". He is considered among the most influential theorists and organizers of anarchism. After the events of 1848 he began to call himself a federalist.[1]

Proudhon, who was born in Besançon, was a printer who taught himself Latin in order to better print books in the language. His best-known assertion is that Property is Theft!, contained in his first major work, What is Property? Or, an Inquiry into the Principle of Right and Government (Qu'est-ce que la propriété? Recherche sur le principe du droit et du gouvernement), published in 1840. The book's publication attracted the attention of the French authorities. It also attracted the scrutiny of Karl Marx, who started a correspondence with its author. The two influenced each other: they met in Paris while Marx was exiled there. Their friendship finally ended when Marx responded to Proudhon's The System of Economic Contradictions, or The Philosophy of Poverty with the provocatively titled The Poverty of Philosophy. The dispute became one of the sources of the split between the anarchist and Marxian wings of the International Working Men's Association. Some, such as Edmund Wilson, have contended that Marx's attack on Proudhon had its origin in the latter's defense of Karl Grün, whom Marx bitterly disliked, but who had been preparing translations of
Proudhon's work.

Proudhon favored workers' associations or co-operatives, as well as individual worker/peasant possession, over private ownership or the nationalization of land and workplaces. He considered that social revolution could be achieved in a peaceful manner. In The Confessions of a Revolutionary Proudhon asserted that, Anarchy is Order Without Power, the phrase which much later inspired, in the view of some, the anarchist circled-A symbol, today "one of the most common graffiti on the urban landscape."[2] He unsuccessfully tried to create a national bank, to be funded by what became an abortive attempt at an income tax on capitalists and stockholders. Similar in some respects to a credit union, it would have given interest-free loans.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon

I find it amazing that non-leftists typically peseverate about the "size of government" when defining ideologies as "leftwing", rather than the primary issue leftists actually care about: equality in power, rights, opportunities, and the distribution of resources.

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Master_Pedant
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25 Aug 2012, 5:55 am

Quote:

In politics, the term left wing derives from the French Revolution, as radical Montagnard and Jacobin deputies from the Third Estate generally sat to the left of the president's chair in parliament, a habit which began in the Estates General of 1789. Throughout the 19th century in France, the main line dividing left and right was between supporters of the French Republic and those of the Monarchy.[5] The June Days Uprising during the Second Republic was an attempt by the left to assert itself after the 1848 Revolution, but only a small portion of the population supported this.

In the mid 19th century, nationalism, socialism, democracy, and anti-clericalism became features of the French Left. After Napoleon III's 1851 coup and the subsequent establishment of the Second Empire, Marxism began to rival radical republicanism and utopian socialism as a force within left-wing politics. The influential Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, published in 1848, asserted that all human history is the history of class struggle. They predicted that a proletarian revolution would eventually overthrow bourgeois capitalism and create a classless, stateless, post-monetary society.

In the United States, many leftists, social liberals, progressives and trade unionists were influenced by the works of Thomas Paine, who introduced the concept of asset-based egalitarianism, which theorises that social equality is possible by a redistribution of resources.

The International Workingmen's Association (1864–76), sometimes called the First International, brought together delegates from many different countries, with many different views about how to reach a classless and stateless society. Following a split between supporters of Marx and Mikhail Bakunin, anarchists formed the International Workers' Association.[10] The Second International (1888–1916) became divided over the issue of World War I. Those who opposed the war, such as Vladimir Lenin and Rosa Luxemburg, saw themselves as further to the left.

In the United States after Reconstruction, the phrase "the Left" was used to describe those who supported trade unions, the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.[8][11] More recently in the United States, left-wing and right-wing have often been used as synonyms for Democratic and Republican, or as synonyms for liberalism and conservatism.[12][13][14][15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_ ... f_the_term

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