Ethical systems and critical thinking

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I like to talk about ethics and the difference between "right and wrong" or "good and evil" or whatever name the concept is given. It is very important for me to be a good person, so the subject is really relevant to me. I find most people in situations where these things are being discussed (forums especially) get angry very easily, and do not care if they make sense or not.

I don't understand why people questioning "common sense" things is necessarily bad, or why people don't get that if having integrity is really important to a person, they should strive for logical consistency. Sometimes if someone in a discussion states, "_____ is wrong" or "_____ is right", they get very offended if I ask, "Why?". They seem to interpret this as some kind of hostility, or that I am saying that they're wrong. I don't understand why people assume I think they are wrong when I question why they believe what they do.

I think if people don't want to have their moral reasoning questioned, they shouldn't enter discussions like that in the first place.

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling for most people. If you give them information that doesn't match with their current beliefs, they'll get that yucky feeling and will have two choices: alter their belief, or defend it. Most will choose the latter, because most people are unwilling to change the things they have held dear for probably quite a while. And because they are going to defend their belief no matter what, that means the more logical your argument, the more upset they will get. That results in emotions coming into the debate because there's nothing else to use in defence.

Even just asking "why?" can cause this feeling in many people.

That's a good point. It's hard for me to identify with getting upset over things like this, because I am really, really willing to change my beliefs if there's a good reason to, but most people seem very set in their ways when it comes to some things.

I took an ethics class in school and I got really into it, and I don't think anyone else in the class liked it as much as I did (maybe one or two other students did). Learning about philosophers and how they variously defined the difference between goodness and evil changed my whole way of thinking about these things! It changed my life so much.

I can imagine an ethics class being the sort of thing that could often end in tears! Especially if you have group discussion about the ideas.

I get myself into trouble quite a bit because I love to play devil's advocate when I'm trying to make my mind up about something. If I don't feel that I have enough information (which is nearly always - I don't hold many strong beliefs), I'll question the other person in a way that might seem like an attack, if they don't understand what I'm doing. There are certain people I have learnt to bite my tongue around.

One thing I find frustrating is when I take on the devil's advocate role, get convinced by the other person's argument, then they gloat because they think they have "won". They haven't understood that that was the whole point, I was willing to go either way with my conclusion depending on who had the better argument. I've taken the opposite viewpoint by default, so chances are I may have picked the weaker argument. So what? I got my information, it was not a competition. *sigh*

Oh, wow I think I know JUST what that's like, when the other person thinks the discussion is about "winning"! I'm not looking at it that way, but a lot of people treat discussions about these things to be like some sort of competitive finger-pointing contest.

Also, I love playing devil's advocate. I have some strong beliefs, but I get peeved when other people argue in favor of my beliefs with arguments that are really just...I don't know how to describe them. Just all messed up.

Like I see this one I a lot: "It is wrong to execute people because capital punishment is cruel and barbaric. Besides, if the criminals are not executed but kept in prison for life, they will live a life of torment in prison, which is much worse--that is what they deserve".

That argument bothers me because it doesn't make any sense. It is a terrible argument. I don't understand how people can't see why that is bad reasoning.

Edit: Also, actually no one cried in my ethics class! People got somewhat upset, and a few voices were raised, but no tears.

'Yes' to much of what has been said here. If an idea or argument gets my interest, I have to examine it and test it to destruction. It's not win or lose on a personal level - it's the enjoyment of thinking and playing with the idea. If there's a prize, it's that you now have a well tested idea. A well tested idea generally being A Good Thing.

The comedian Bill Hicks said 'whenever two or more people agree, I take the opposing view'. Me too. It is so automatic with me. I think it's because I have a hard time trusting something if I don't know how it works. And it's doubley (yes, it's a word) so with things I agree with - there are good and bad reasons to believe something, and one can be right for the wrong reason.

I get the sense people want some sort of support for having an opinion.

The capital punishment example made me think of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle_logic

Yes, I can totally identify with all this. It took me a long time to come to terms with it (well, more or less...)

I think that's the most popular link I've ever shared. Cool.

It took me a while to get that it wasn't an invitation to share what I think, or to critique the statement at hand. It's some sort of consensus forming thin, a mutual reinforcement and bonding, I guess. It's hard to explain that I'm questioning why I think what I do as much as what they do. I have principles and beliefs, and I'll argue for them, but I like to test them. I'm lucky that my wife is usually up to such conversation - she's interested in and knowledgeable of Philosophy and gets what I'm doing to an extent, but sometimes she can't express a liking or appreciation of something without me asking about it.

And sometimes I think something, but don't really know why. I can try and work it out myself, but it's a lot easier (and fun!) with someone else.

My mind always wants to analyse and take things apart, to try and understand how they work (much of the time having to shrug and say 'don't get it'). And for me this is another iteration of that. I even get suspicious of scientific pronouncements, because I wasn't there to oversee it and check they've thought of and considered everything. I should like to point out it's far more of a trust thing than an ego thing.