Nice guys and feminists

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I like this. I personally think that a measure of a person's best is what they are on their worst days. The coolest people to be around are those who can keep themselves together and shrug it off under the worst of circumstances such that you can't really tell a difference between good days and bad days with them. I try my best to be that guy, though I don't always quite make it.

On the other hand, you have guys who can't keep it together even on their best days. So I don't think "I was having a bad day" is ever a really good excuse.

My opinion on initial impressions is that they are overrated. Anyone can learn to act a part. It takes time to make authentic character assessments. I know that my outward appearance is flawed and that I lack a charismatic personality, but I'm even more awkward trying to be someone I'm not. Someone who is that quick to write me off isn't the kind of person I need to be with.

A lot of men call themselves 'Nice Guys,' when they are not, in fact, nice; they just follow what they see as the prescribed rituals of chivalry and expect women to fall at their feet. Note that it is 'women,' plural, that they are generally after, in spite of perceiving themselves as 'Nice;' they still tend to see women as a homogenous block, and their main point in 'choosing' a partner is finding a size, shape, and color that they find aesthetically pleasing, as if they were picking out a coat.

Many women are rather put-off by that sort of 'Nice Guy,' but he persists in calling himself a Nice Guy and in feeling sorry for himself when women don't fall at his feet for the chivalry that he thinks is a fair substitute for human respect.

Another note for guys, including those who are genuinely nice and not just those who think that they are: a woman rejecting you does not mean that there's anything wrong with you; it just means that you're not 'the one' for her. Most people have a relatively scarce population of people whom they'd be comfortable living with; some NTs might get along with 10%, say, of other NTs as partners, but most people are looking for a type that's considerably rarer than that. It doesn't mean that you're a bad person, or that they're a bad person, if you aren't in each other's 1% (or whatever), and if you're passed over quickly, it just saves both of you time in realizing that you need to keep looking.

Exactly, it's best not to take things so personal or think it's all about your conduct. Everyone has their own preferences and no one owes it to anyone to settle for less than that.

That is precisely what I find unfair. If "red flags" involve body language then due to my Asperger I show "red flags" all the time. But the truth is that I am not a creep -- I don't drink, don't smoke, don't believe in sex before marriage, my life revolves around my physics career, etc. YET, they would never know it because of the "red flags" that seem to indicate that I am some kind of creep.

I mean, as an aspie, don't you see why its unfair? The said "red flags" is the very definition of Asperger. So aspies DO give off red flags and are isolated as a result.

For one thing, no one bothers to tell me what you just did. Instead, they simply don't acknowledge that I had a bad day. I can repeat it 10 times and they just won't hear it. They assume I am exactly the same every single day like I am some kind of robot.

But regardless, when I said "bad day" I really meant "something up to chance". For example, I was on a dating site the other day and girls profile talked about her career. So I asked more questions. Then she said she doesn't like talking about school on dating site. So then I said "fine lets talk about something else". But she was not interested any more. So thats a "bad day". I picked topic completely at random. It HAPPENED to be wrong topic. So I was more than willing to pick some other topic, yet her mind was made up.

Apart from "bad day", it is also possible I am awkward when I talk to NEW people but once I know a given person I am not awkward any more. Yet they don't give me time to show how I improve with familiarity.

And another example of "bad day" is a common advice that you don't share negative things when you first meet someone, you wait till a couple of weeks later. I don't usually follow that advice; I share whatever first flies out of my mouth. Now of course even if I didn't share it now they would have learned it later. But its a "bad day" in a sense that if they DID learn it later they would have view it as just a little quirk but if they learn it the first 5 minutes then they view it as some kind of deal breaker. So the "bad day" can consist of the fact that conversation went in a direction that made me want to talk about such and such negative traits of mine that the other person took too seriously.

I can go on and on but you got the jist.

I guess you should have some circle of friends but you have to keep talking to people outside that circle so that they can "move in" easily if they happen to change at any point.

I mean what I DONT like is the fact that people "shut down" on someone that they don't like. So its like they don't even see that person. That person can become a saint but they wont ever know it because they are careful not to look.

I don't do the prescribed rituals such as holding the door. When I say I am nice what I mean is that I look at a deeper person and thus look PAST all the shallow stuff like first impressions and so forth. Most people try to do various "tricks" of making good first impression; I don't. So I am more "honest" than them in this respect. Also, a lot of guys when they talk to a girl sound very shallow you can almost guess that they are trying to bed her. On the other hand I talk about deeper subjects, like science, politics, religion, and I never talk about sex. And I talk about the above deep subjects only online not in person. In person I am very shy and don't know how to innitiate conversation. So I associate shyness with being nice.



I never think of women that way. For one thing, one of the main things that I want is a woman with Ph.D. so we can be on the same level. On the other hand, the sexist guys tend to avoid successful women so thats the difference right there. Also, if I were to think of women "in plural" as you described, how come I am still obsessing about Anne whom I met 7 years ago? I connected to her on PERSONAL level thats why I obsess about her.

Thats a relief I thought it was because I was too clingy overly affectionate and a pushover, and too soft.

To be honest, I suspect that "nice guys" spent most of their lives being told by their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, romantic comedies, and so on that if they engage in certain behaviors women will reward them with romantic/sexual attention. These men then grow up, treat women in accordance with what they've been told, yet it doesn't work. They then become bitter, angry and frustrated because they are acting in accordance with "the rules" they've had explained to them, yet they are not getting results.

I can go on, but I think I've made my point.

On the other hand, I've been called an as*hole or variations thereof, more times than I can count for actually setting boundaries, calling people out on their s**t, and generally having a set of standards that everyone is held to, the woman with the D-cups and the guy with the D-cups.

Also, guys, instead of going all gooey eyed when you see a woman, evaluate her as you would when you're buying a car or a toaster. Now, before the feminist squad has me beheaded, I'm not saying "treat her like an object", I'm saying "Evaluate her good and bad qualities, rather than being blinded by her appearance".

I cant really help it if I am friendly and affectionate! I cannot picture myself being cold, heartless, and only after sex but as a guy no matter what I am going to be viewed and stereotyped that way, maybe people need to just realize I am just being nice to be nice!! Good god it is not always just to get sex, although as a male I have sex on my mind but that is not the reason why I am being nice, but because I feel it is the right thing to do!! I go by treating others the way I want get treated but unfortunately most people don't go by that motto!! If I were to be mean I would be afraid to become a heartless monster who hates everyone! Now don't get me wrong I tend to not always open a car door for women because it is not on my mind but when she is cold I will give her my coat because I can bear the cold "not assuming women are weak, just a way of being nice" but there are times I will cover the tab of going out for lunch other times id go Dutch!No matter how I explain it or how honest I am I am going to be attacked on my voicing my opinions but that is how I am.

None of those things preclude being a creep. Creepiness has to do with a person's attitude towards others, usually a man's attitude towards women, such that he does not see them as individuals but as targets.

Here is a big surprise for you

1. I definitely don't look at women as "SEXUAL targets". For one thing I don't even believe in sex before marriage. The main reason I want to be with someone is the combination of loneliness as well as the need to raise self esteem. Also I like the sense that she cares about me. BUt once agian I don't believe in sex before marriage so I am not having the attitude you think I do.

2. Perhaps you are thinking I view women as "below" men in that it is specifically "womans" job to make "man" less lonely. Not true either. I mean, when I was a graduate student and professors didn't want to work with me, I was also seeing the potential thesis advisors as "targets" rather than individuals; and they were mostly men. So clearly, you can't call it "sexist" since said profs had same gender as me. I was just being desperate because most professors was turning me down. With dating, same thing. I am simply being desperate. But being desperate doesn't make me creep either. If anyone else was placed into my situation when no one likes them they would be desperate too,

Now, you can say that it is "selfish" to take out my own situation onto others. True, but everyone is selfish to SOME extend. So in particular, most people are "selfish enough" to act exactly like i am acting IF they were to be placed in my desperate situation.

I don't usually keep up-to-date files on complete strangers and unnamed acquaintances.

Also, what if I'm perfectly happy with the people I know? There is no moral imperative to open friendship.


Maybe the reason you have problems is not that you give bad first impressions, but that you give bad impressions in general. The first time you see someone will influence how you will see them the other times, but it will not strictly determine perception. Only if you reinforce the first impression will it make a lasting mark -- and if you do, the first impression probably was right.

Feminists dislike "nice men" because of their ridiculous entitlement issues. "I am nice to her, why is she not opening her legs already?! ! mad mad mad." Most of these nice guys are not really that nice. They are just hypocrites. Being nice to someone just because you want to take advantage of him/her is actually being manipulative, not nice.

They could be nice men, they just let the woman walk all over them to get what they want, which women in turn dislike. Then again, women also dislike being held to the same standards as a man, so there really is no winning for these men.

To be fair, who would want to be held to such low standards?