Ye olde South Afrikan flag: Racist or Not?

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21 Sep 2012, 10:25 pm

Here it is:

The flag of South Africa from 1928 to 1994. I mentioned this in another thread but it didn't seem to go anywhere. Bear in mind that this flag was used by the Reich of South Africa, established by ultra-nationalist boers in 1948 who implemented Apartheid. So for those who remember apartheid, this is its symbol. And to me that's what this flag represents, just as the confederate flag has been tainted and is now associated with the Klan.

Jacoby
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21 Sep 2012, 10:34 pm

Is the symbolism racist tho? Are the Dutch tricolor and Union Jack considered racist in South Africa?

AspieRogue

21 Sep 2012, 10:39 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Is the symbolism racist tho? Are the Dutch tricolor and Union Jack considered racist in South Africa?

The Union Jack? Not that I'm aware of. But the old Dutch tricolor(with the top stripe being orange) might be; along with the Orange Free State flag.

Hopper
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22 Sep 2012, 4:26 am

If a flag can be racist, this is racist.

Ugly as f**k, to boot.

Tequila
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22 Sep 2012, 6:13 am

Hopper wrote:

If a flag can be racist, this is racist.

Take it the Dutch royal flag is racist as well then. (It's remarkably similar to the Dutch royal flag, but the South African apartheid flag has a darker shade of blue.)

As for the South African 1928-1994 flag, it is associated with apartheid, yes, but it was in use for two decades before apartheid was officially enshrined into law by the Nats in 1948.

As I say, though, the South African flag is associated with apartheid so much that it's impossible to sanitise its meaning because it means little else to so many who had to live under it. It's a part of South African history, although not one to be proud of.

As for the flag - it'd look a lot better without the three flags in the middle.

To be honest, if I lived in South Africa, I'd be looking to get out.

ruveyn
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22 Sep 2012, 6:19 am

Hopper wrote:

If a flag can be racist, this is racist.

Ugly as f**k, to boot.

How? It does not depict Negroes as slaves or serfs. In fact there is nothing in the flag that pertains to skin color.

ruveyn

Tequila
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22 Sep 2012, 6:30 am

ruveyn wrote:

How? It does not depict Negroes as slaves or serfs. In fact there is nothing in the flag that pertains to skin color.

The Nazi German Hakenkreuz doesn't portray Jews being denounced, victimised, sidelined, abused, oppressed, beaten, threatened, deported and murdered in concentration camps. Is the Hakenkreuz not a racist flag?

It's not just about the content of the flag, but the overall impression of all the things it's responsible for and its achievements in the public mind.

What do you think people would think if I flew that flag outside my house and told them it wasn't racist because it didn't have anything showing the oppression and murder of Jews, gays, Poles, the disabled and so on?

Symbols alone carry powerful meanings.

Ztrain
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22 Sep 2012, 8:44 am

AspieRogue wrote:

Here it is:

The flag of South Africa from 1928 to 1994. I mentioned this in another thread but it didn't seem to go anywhere. Bear in mind that this flag was used by the Reich of South Africa, established by ultra-nationalist boers in 1948 who implemented Apartheid. So for those who remember apartheid, this is its symbol. And to me that's what this flag represents, just as the confederate flag has been tainted and is now associated with the Klan.

It symbolizes the Apartheid Era, its just as rasicist as a US confederate flag or a Swastika Flag

AspieRogue

22 Sep 2012, 9:00 am

Tequila wrote:

It's not just about the content of the flag, but the overall impression of all the things it's responsible for and its achievements in the public mind.

What do you think people would think if I flew that flag outside my house and told them it wasn't racist because it didn't have anything showing the oppression and murder of Jews, gays, Poles, the disabled and so on?

Symbols alone carry powerful meanings.

Exactly!

Tequila
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22 Sep 2012, 10:57 am

Ztrain wrote:

It symbolizes the Apartheid Era, its just as rasicist as a US confederate flag or a Swastika Flag

You need to be careful with comparing it to the Confederate flag, as apparently many blacks themselves proudly fly and use the flag in the Southern U.S.

The swastika design is often used in Hinduism and has been for millennia. The Nazis hijacked their design and twisted it. The swastika also used prominently by Jains too.

The swastika has many different religious and spiritual meanings. It's just very unfortunate that people associate it with Nazi Germany.

AspieRogue

22 Sep 2012, 11:07 am

Tequila wrote:

Ztrain wrote:

It symbolizes the Apartheid Era, its just as rasicist as a US confederate flag or a Swastika Flag

The Swastika has a history is embedded with racism. That's certainly how it's interpreted by many people India. The reason being that it's the symbol of the lighter skinned Aryans who are the ruling elite in India and forced the black skinned Dravidians into the lowest caste: The Untouchables. These people live in extreme poverty and can't find enough to eat so they must catch and eat rats. In fact, that racist symbolism of the Swastika are precisely the reason why Adolf Hitler adopted it to be used as the symbol of the Nazi Party.

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22 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm

I don't know anything about this flag,not informed enough on what happened in that area,sounds bad though but I'll agree to what was posted earlier ,its ugly,wait it's so bad it's FUGLY,it looks like a 5 year old glued it together.
The swastika is still used in Tibetian art,it is hidden in many Thangkas (wall hangings usually with Dieties or Saints) The Dalai Lama resides in India now but I didn't know that anyone in India had a problem with it.I watched a religious show from India and it featured a giant swirling swastika and the audience was very diverse with lots of very dark skinned people who had no problem with it.
Hitler was fond of trying to appropiate any symbol,Christian(such as the spear of destiny) or the swastika which was a symbol of auspiciousness if he thought it could advance him.

AspieRogue

22 Sep 2012, 12:32 pm

Misslizard wrote:

The independent Kingdom of Tibet was an ally of Nazi Germany. Haven't you heard about Heinrich Harrer? He was instrumental in establishing diplomatic relations with Tibet and the Dalai Lama. So if you think that Hitler chose the swastika arbitrarily, think again.

Hopper
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22 Sep 2012, 12:49 pm

Bill Hicks wrote:

I was over in Australia, and people were asking me, 'are you proud to be an American?'. I was like, 'I don't know. I didn't have a lot to do with it. My parents f****d there, that's about all'....I hate patriotism, I can’t stand it man, it makes me f*****g sick! It’s a round world the last time I checked, okay? Y’know what I mean? In fact, that’s how we can stop patriotism, I think. Instead of putting stars and stripes on our flags we should put pictures of our parents f*****g! Gather people around that flag and see your dad hunched over your mom’s big 4x4 butt, see if any boot rally mentality can circle around that little f****n’ image. “God… damn! I’m out of here. f**k it.

Misslizard
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22 Sep 2012, 1:06 pm

Dear Aspierougue,
Yes,think again,I am a Buddhist practitioner of the Nygima tradition of Tibet,I know REAL Tibetans,Tibet did invite delegates from Germany but was never an official ally of Germany
Go to www,berzinarchives.com,read The nazi connection with Shambala and Tibet.

Jacoby
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22 Sep 2012, 2:47 pm

Tequila wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

How? It does not depict Negroes as slaves or serfs. In fact there is nothing in the flag that pertains to skin color.

The Swastika was a racist symbol and was used as the flag of a racist ideology. I think a better comparison would be the Iron Cross or Reichsadler which aren't inherently racist but came to be associated with Nazis by a lot of people.

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