Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

orgnzm
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, as of late

20 Dec 2006, 10:01 pm

[Uses cybernetics and ecology]

Why humans have expanded knowledge: <i>Our cycle through the trees results in increased consciousness</i>:

life among trees (organism among organism) = increased complexity (organismic energy fracturization (fractalization = "branching") manifested physically ("branches")). [swinging from trees is a fast environment]

complex ecology (increased information) favors fast math faculties (symbols (representations)).

organically developing ecology favors integrating awareness (accumulation of conclusions (memory)).

fall to earth (expanded ecology = expanded information = expanded horizon) more finely cultured by life in the canopy (accelerated and integrated intellect). [Explains why other larger and older animals are not as aware as humans.]

Any challenges?



snake321
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,135

21 Dec 2006, 12:01 am

people are intelligent?



orgnzm
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, as of late

21 Dec 2006, 1:54 am

snake321 wrote:
people are intelligent?


Yes, compared to species which do not go through this extra cycle of acculturation.



Mithrandir
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 614
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

21 Dec 2006, 2:31 am

I think I will have a great time in discussions with you.
Cybernetics and Ecology, two of my favorite subjects.
(Okay, I am majored in Environmental Science but close)
And I love the show GITS (Ghost in the Shell)

Anyway

How about this for challenges:
Why is it then that we originated in Africa, in a grassland, not in a tree biome?
And why is the Fertile Crescent dawn of Human Civilization?


_________________
Music is the language of the world.
Math is the language of the universe.


orgnzm
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3
Location: Seattle, as of late

21 Dec 2006, 4:24 am

Mithrandir wrote:
I think I will have a great time in discussions with you.
Cybernetics and Ecology, two of my favorite subjects.
(Okay, I am majored in Environmental Science but close)
And I love the show GITS (Ghost in the Shell)

Anyway

How about this for challenges:
Why is it then that we originated in Africa, in a grassland, not in a tree biome?
And why is the Fertile Crescent dawn of Human Civilization?


Hi, Mithrandir.

1: Fossil record indicates life begins in the ocean (deep sea hydrothermal (energy) vents = basis of food chain), develops outward toward land. Enter plants. Enter trees. Enter life in canopy. Enter climate cooling (less tropical trees = diminishing canopy space). Primates begin using feet to scatter across earth beneath and between trees. selection (survival) favors ability to maneuver on land ("fall to earth"). fossil record confirms: bipedal development came early. In short: Our species took a long trip to becoming land species: through the trees. [I'm not sure why only Africa developed humans, probably has to do with ice ages, which caused global tropical rainforests to retreat, perhaps leaving only large African forests from which humans emerge (Worthy of research!)]

2: Civilization develops from agriculture, which allows humans to stop hunting and gathering and move indoors (domestication). Anthropoligical record confirms: Civilization always originates in dry ecologies (Fertile Crescent / Mexico / China = source of 3 great civilizations (east / west / new world)) because incentive to perpetuate species causes us to discover agriculture.



lowfreq50
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,536
Location: Gainesville, Florida

21 Dec 2006, 7:55 am

It's pretty much all we have going for us. An animal half our size (a dog, for example) can kill us easily in a physical match. Even our method of locomotion (slamming our weight down on the heel and transferring it to the ball) is kinda dumb.



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,682
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

21 Dec 2006, 11:31 am

lowfreq50 wrote:
It's pretty much all we have going for us. An animal half our size (a dog, for example) can kill us easily in a physical match. Even our method of locomotion (slamming our weight down on the heel and transferring it to the ball) is kinda dumb.


At the same time though if it were pure evolution though, the more intelligence escalates the more it makes us completely impractical. We keep looking out for our kids to have the best lives, we get real picky about mates and their social and economic status, we make sure we have only a couple kids so they can have the best we have to offer - meanwhile everyone else is having far more kids and just throwing em out there in the world in a sink or swim kind of way and either are out for themselves or don't have the resources but aren't concerned with it.



hyperbolic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,869

21 Dec 2006, 11:33 am

humans are intelligent relative to other species, and in certain areas...they evolved to be able to handle obstacles in their surroundings



Corvus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,674
Location: Calgary

21 Dec 2006, 12:03 pm

Humans also developed 'extra time' by making somethings more efficient, such as fire (protection, warmth), the wheel (faster transportation), and tools (for both weapons and construction). Both aloud more time for curiousity which helps develop intelligence.



diseased
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 870
Location: Victoria, BC

21 Dec 2006, 2:10 pm

sorry... I'm still stuck on the assertion that humans are intelligent



dgd1788
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,335
Location: Indiana, USA

21 Dec 2006, 3:10 pm

I think we need to read his philosophy more clearly, I know I don't understand what he is trying to say, but since I don't understand: I won't criticize his statement.


_________________
If great minds think alike, does that mean that stupid minds think differently?


cros
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 6

22 Dec 2006, 12:03 pm

But how do you define ''intelligence''. I would agree to call humans intelligent if that means that intelligent life forms are able to contemplate themselves and there own existence; this would most likely include a host of other animals, including: apes, dolphins and possibly elephants.

When you use intelligence as a way to exclude humans from the rest of the animal world, i would use our disability to separate ourselves from un animate objects: God, superstition and nature spirits or perhaps the way humans use aspects of there thinking and anatomy for a purpose that is not in line with the original use of that particular aspect of a human being. (where we once used our big brains to learn about different plant species and hunting patrons we now use them to learn about math and reading; even though all 4 possible use different area's of the human brain.

But what orgnzm is trying to explain; i think. Is that the switch from a mostly 2D world to the 3D world of our primate ancestors has led to the establishment of some basic mental skills that are crucial for human intelligence, or spacial thinking.



4lex
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 38
Location: San Diego, CA

22 Dec 2006, 12:31 pm

lowfreq50 wrote:
It's pretty much all we have going for us. An animal half our size (a dog, for example) can kill us easily in a physical match. Even our method of locomotion (slamming our weight down on the heel and transferring it to the ball) is kinda dumb.


In regards to an animal half-, same-, or treble-our-size (and MUCH larger), some cases this is true; in other cases it is absolutely false.
Many animals can be outwitted and can be eliminated by superior intellect and even simple tool use. We weren't around to see out forefathers trick mammoths into running off cliffs, or slaying them with at-latls (javelin throwers that magnify the velocity of a hurled javelin). Be we did it all the time with bone and stone implements. Or a bit of leather cord, a woven pocket, and a smooth stone can also be turned into a lethal implement, felling targets at range before they know we're there.

Most would agree that a German Shepherd is a formidable foe against a non-combat-trained human, but with simple neck-kicking techniques, our WWII boys managed to eliminate them without wasting ammunition and making noise. Cleverness beats physical superiority.

There are many other examples that can be stated here, but I think you get the idea; Although intellect takes preparation to be put into use (combat training, ambush, building simple tools, etc), it usually kick tha arse of pure physical superiority.

If you get a chance, watch "The Jagged Edge", where a party of men are hunted by a humongous bloodthirsty bear. One man who was familiar with the past managed to defeat what seemed to be unbeatable odds. A great lesson for our kids.