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AutisticBelle
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02 Oct 2012, 11:37 pm

Well, we used to be the best. Not anymore, but we once were. Amost every country and civilization was like that. Ancient Greece, ancient Rome. Britain. Ect. They all had their moment of greatness and they all fell into second place and then to oblivion. So will America. So anyway, we were once the greatest power and people are arrogant because that.
I am PROUD of being an American because of the ideals this coutry was founded on. I support those ideals, even though they are slowly going out of fashion.
(At least, this is my personal oppinion. Most of it is speculation anyway)



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02 Oct 2012, 11:51 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
I don't get why most other Americans are so damn arrogant and this is coming from another American.Not only are most of them arrogant but also xenophobic esspecially those from the south and mid west.A lot go to great lengths of saying I only buy American yet their cloths are made in China and most American flags are made in China they get pissed when I tell them that.


I try to buy American made products when I can...not because I dislike other countries, but because I dislike American companies that are helping to destroy our economy, by sending our jobs overseas. Also, when we buy things made in China (which is sometimes unavoidable), we are basically supporting those companies that put profits above workers rights, safety, and environmental protection.

By the way, many US flags are actually made in the USA now. :D

Yes, there are many arrogant Americans, but there are many ignorant people outside the US that believe all Americans are arrogant.



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02 Oct 2012, 11:52 pm

Europe has good and bad things, it seems some Europeans are just as arrogant, saying they are "Light Years Ahead"

Greece is in a bad place, Italy is in danger, Spain is in danger, France is about to be in danger (see how that 90% tax works), I hear stories of people waiting months to see a doctor to in England, I can see a doctor and get a 2nd opinion sometimes in 2 weeks or less. Europe has serious issues with integration in a lot of places, with ethnic groups living distinct from each other. Lots of videos showing Muslims creating "sharia law zones" in England. I saw a report that England was encouraging schools to consider that white paper might be racist, and if asked, teachers should say their favorite color is black, even if it's not.

All that said, Europe has a lot of great things, and there are places in Europe like Switzerland I would love to live in.

Like most people, we are proud of what we have going for us, and ignore what we have going against us.



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03 Oct 2012, 11:24 am

You can’t say that all Americans are bad or think they are the best.

I met a guy from New York when I lived in Holland, he was a right Plonker who thought he was a gift to mankind, he acted like he was the king of America, he really thought he was cool. He had a flat cap and a fat cigar hanging out of his mouth.

After that I met another New Yorker. He was a really nice kind person, well spoken and liked to party. When he was drunk he was still well mannered and totally cool.

You can’t generalize people from America or any other country, it’s impossible.

Try looking for the good in people, it’s there somewhere.



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03 Oct 2012, 11:51 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Europe has good and bad things, it seems some Europeans are just as arrogant, saying they are "Light Years Ahead"

Greece is in a bad place, Italy is in danger, Spain is in danger, France is about to be in danger (see how that 90% tax works), I hear stories of people waiting months to see a doctor to in England, I can see a doctor and get a 2nd opinion sometimes in 2 weeks or less. Europe has serious issues with integration in a lot of places, with ethnic groups living distinct from each other. Lots of videos showing Muslims creating "sharia law zones" in England. I saw a report that England was encouraging schools to consider that white paper might be racist, and if asked, teachers should say their favorite color is black, even if it's not.


There are too many arrogant Europeans and (more noticeably to me) Brits. As with any place, there's good and bad. Britons can think well of the NHS, but it's being carved up and sold off by our present government.

Europe has issues because of the economic crash and the Euro. In the end, we sold out to the neoliberal ideology, and it's done for us. Where Europe has any sort of heritage one might consider defending, it is under assault from Capitalism.

One can wait a long time to see a specialist - it varies from region to region. A GP can usually be seen the same day. Where there are problems with the NHS, it has come from trying to make it 'market' like, and selling off services to private providers, and from underfunding (right now for political reasons).

As to that 'white paper/favourite colour' thing - where did you read that? Such stories are usually conjured up in the minds of journalists.



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03 Oct 2012, 6:10 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1aRzoXRPuA[/youtube] Arrogace leads to the downfall of an empire. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dCUw9rT-bI[/youtube]


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03 Oct 2012, 6:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:

That was not a war. No declaration of war. In any case the U.S. was not conquered by the N. Vietnamese. The U.S. simply gave up fighting the war since there was no point to it.



The war ended with the entire country reunified under the rule of the Vietnamese communist party, under their terms.

If that doesnt qualify as conditions of defeat for the USA, I don't know what does.



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03 Oct 2012, 6:39 pm

"We don't know what we want,but we are ready to bite someone to get it."

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03 Oct 2012, 6:46 pm

As for the OP, I think America's arrogance is partly down to its youthfulness and immaturity as a country.

Its like the 'Scrappy Doo' of nations. "Lemme at im! Lemme at im! Puuuuppy Poooooower!" - an annoying petulant child, up well past its bedtime.

I long for the day that big Uncle China makes it sit on the naughty step for a while.

In the words of Eddie Izzard, a coalition between Germany and Japan would be better suited to act as 'global policeman'.



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03 Oct 2012, 7:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

That was not a war. No declaration of war. In any case the U.S. was not conquered by the N. Vietnamese. The U.S. simply gave up fighting the war since there was no point to it.



The war ended with the entire country reunified under the rule of the Vietnamese communist party, under their terms.

If that doesnt qualify as conditions of defeat for the USA, I don't know what does.



There were 1,100,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong killed during the war and less than 60,000 Americans killed. At any time during the latter half of American involvement the American military had enough forces there to simply roll into North Vietnam and topple the communist regime. But they didn't, the politicians wouldn't let them. They did everything they were asked to do and won every battle they fought. You can say it was an American defeat, but it wasn't a military one. Here's some good reading on the subject. This is a clickable link



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03 Oct 2012, 7:40 pm

Mack27 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

That was not a war. No declaration of war. In any case the U.S. was not conquered by the N. Vietnamese. The U.S. simply gave up fighting the war since there was no point to it.



The war ended with the entire country reunified under the rule of the Vietnamese communist party, under their terms.

If that doesnt qualify as conditions of defeat for the USA, I don't know what does.



There were 1,100,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong killed during the war and less than 60,000 Americans killed. At any time during the latter half of American involvement the American military had enough forces there to simply roll into North Vietnam and topple the communist regime. But they didn't, the politicians wouldn't let them. They did everything they were asked to do and won every battle they fought. You can say it was an American defeat, but it wasn't a military one.


numbers are far from everything, even in that one respect some countries can afford more than others, meaning that any direct comparison is pointless without more data.


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03 Oct 2012, 11:01 pm

Seriously, folks, America is arrogant? Let's see....
Which part of the world has fought hundreds, if not thousands, of pointless, bloody wars? Which part of the world produced some of the most odious, murderous leaders? Which part of the world carved Asia, Africa, and the Americas into their own colonies? Where did the two most horrible wars in the world start? If you answered Europe, you would be correct.

Now, which country contributed its immense resources and military power to rescue Europe from itself? Which country defended Europe from Russian domination? Which country has guaranteed free flow of oil from the Middle East? Which country has contributed to peace and security in much of the world? If you answered America, you would be correct.

We are not an immature country. We are the greatest nation since the Roman Empire. Get used to it.



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04 Oct 2012, 7:25 am

Danimal wrote:
Seriously, folks, America is arrogant? Let's see....
Which part of the world has fought hundreds, if not thousands, of pointless, bloody wars? Which part of the world produced some of the most odious, murderous leaders? Which part of the world carved Asia, Africa, and the Americas into their own colonies? Where did the two most horrible wars in the world start? If you answered Europe, you would be correct.

Now, which country contributed its immense resources and military power to rescue Europe from itself? Which country defended Europe from Russian domination? Which country has guaranteed free flow of oil from the Middle East? Which country has contributed to peace and security in much of the world? If you answered America, you would be correct.

We are not an immature country. We are the greatest nation since the Roman Empire. Get used to it.


Our biggest error was not becoming the New Rome. We had a chance to govern the world and established a Pax Americana. Two or more centuries of peace and commerce. We blew it.

Our problem is not arrogance. It is smugness. The U.S. never was wrecked and damaged in WW2, we ended up rich and fat by a windfall. We have not behaved wisely. And that is the problem.

ruveyn



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04 Oct 2012, 8:05 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:
I hear stories of people waiting months to see a doctor to in England, I can see a doctor and get a 2nd opinion sometimes in 2 weeks or less. Europe has serious issues with integration in a lot of places, with ethnic groups living distinct from each other. Lots of videos showing Muslims creating "sharia law zones" in England. I saw a report that England was encouraging schools to consider that white paper might be racist, and if asked, teachers should say their favorite color is black, even if it's not.

People only wait months to see a doctor if they have a non-life threatening problem that needs a specialist, and even then it is more a wait for an operation than to be seen by a doctor. My dad needs operations on his hands right now, but he has seen several doctors whilst waiting, and it didn't take him months to see a hospital doctor.

It isn't so much ethnic groups that lives separately from each other, rather classes. There are some problems with couples immigrating where only one of them can speak English so the other cannot integrate.

The "sharia law zones!! !!" is a long running rumour created by the right wing press in this country, and it seems to have caught the imagination of the American right, but it simply isn't grounded in reality. There are some sharia kangaroo courts, but a) they replace civil courts, not criminal courts, b) the parties still have the option of mainstream civil courts, c) the sharia courts have no legal standing, and d) the verdicts of the sharia courts cannot be enforced. There are not "no-go" zones where the police just say "yeah, there was a crime but we'll leave it to the Muslims to sort out because that's their part of town".

Link to the "favourite colour/racist paper" report. Sounds like made up BS to me. I attend a school in England and there is no indication of that.
Danimal wrote:
Seriously, folks, America is arrogant? Let's see....
Which part of the world has fought hundreds, if not thousands, of pointless, bloody wars? Which part of the world produced some of the most odious, murderous leaders? Which part of the world carved Asia, Africa, and the Americas into their own colonies? Where did the two most horrible wars in the world start? If you answered Europe, you would be correct.

Now, which country contributed its immense resources and military power to rescue Europe from itself? Which country defended Europe from Russian domination? Which country has guaranteed free flow of oil from the Middle East? Which country has contributed to peace and security in much of the world? If you answered America, you would be correct.

We are not an immature country. We are the greatest nation since the Roman Empire. Get used to it.

Erm... the last sentence paragraph is incredibly arrogant. Besides which, the British Empire and the French Empire were "greater" nations than the Roman Empire, the Mongol Empire too.

I fail to see how what happened 200 years ago is relevant to what happened today. Also, Europe is not one country. You can't hold Germany responsible for the terrible atrocities committed by the arrogance of the British Empire (even if you somehow thought that you could attribute that to the arrogance of modern Britons :?), likewise I'm not sure how the existence of Mussolini, Franco, Hitler and Stalin can be pinned on the Nordic countries.

It was Russia which saved Europe from Hitler, not America. Russia is part of Europe (or at least the population and power of Russia).

What is the difference between guaranteeing the free flow of oil from the Middle East and exploiting the resources of an Empire?

And wow... using "military power" as a sign that you aren't arrogant.



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04 Oct 2012, 8:39 am

ruveyn wrote:

Our biggest error was not becoming the New Rome. We had a chance to govern the world and established a Pax Americana. Two or more centuries of peace and commerce. We blew it.

Our problem is not arrogance. It is smugness. The U.S. never was wrecked and damaged in WW2, we ended up rich and fat by a windfall. We have not behaved wisely. And that is the problem.

ruveyn


You seem to be forgetting that the Rome that imposed two centuries of “peace” on the world (you might want to explain your definition of peace to first century Britons and Jews) was an Autocracy that swiftly degenerated into a Crypto-monarchy and then a series of Military Dictatorships.

The U.S. has actually followed the early Republic’s model of building networks of Friends & Allies with NATO, SEATO and the like…

Unfortunately, the U.S. has also rapidly followed the Roman Republic’s descent into domination by greedy shortsighted Plutocrats following abusive, predatory foreign policy in places like Iraq.

On the bright side, we’ve managed to avoid client armies so far, and Congressmen don’t bring daggers to the House floor…. Yet. However, the Tea Party does seem hell bent on pushing us toward winner take all, no compromise politics. Soon, the marginalized will have no recourse other than violence.


We're doing fine if you REALLY want the US to become the new Rome. :roll:


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04 Oct 2012, 10:35 am

GoonSquad wrote:
[



Unfortunately, the U.S. has also rapidly followed the Roman Republic’s descent into domination by greedy shortsighted Plutocrats following abusive, predatory foreign policy in places like Iraq.



We should have eliminated Iraq decades ago. Yes our leadership is unwise and short sighted. And that, partly because world war II made us rich by a windfall. All easily acquired wealth tends to corrupt the recipient. If the U.S. had paid a price in blood and ruin to achieve victory we might have used the peace that followed the war more wisely.

And there has to be a "strong man" or a cop to keep order. Other wise the world is organized like a crap shoot.

The U.S. might have been a benevolent cop and our legacy could have been a century or two of peace and prosperity for all. The Romans, even during the empire kept the roads going and many peoples enjoyed prosperity because of that. The Romans promoted trade because they got a piece of it, and trade generally benefits most of those who participate. Eventually Rome got to large to govern within its own borders and its military commitments ultimately ate her up.

The U.S. is making the same mistake without being an empire. We are fighting the Forever War and that will be our ruination

ruveyn