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Should churches continue to be exempt from taxes?
Yes, but only if they obey the law and stay out of politics 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
Yes, even if they become political 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
No way! 70%  70%  [ 14 ]
Just display the results 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 20

ArrantPariah
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03 Oct 2012, 10:10 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-sie ... 30244.html

This Sunday, 7 October, thousands of preachers are going to be preaching politically charged sermons, formally telling their flock to vote for either a Mormon or an Atheist Kenyan Moslem for president, sending recordings of their sermons to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), and double-dog daring the IRS to remove their tax-exempt status.

What say ye?



Lord_Gareth
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03 Oct 2012, 11:09 am

Freedom of speech and religion are foundational freedoms granted to citizens of the United States. However, as far as I'm concerned churches should be staying out of politics; the USA has never been a theocracy and I don't intend for it to start any time soon. Allowing religions to attempt to dictate laws is essentially the same thing as creating a state religion, and it doesn't need to be tolerated.

If you want tax exempt status, focus on the spiritual well-being of your flock. Their secular well-being is between them and Ceasar.


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Fnord
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03 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm

Religious institutions should be taxed at the same rate as any other money-grubbing corporation.


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Tim_Tex
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03 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm

People think it will only apply to the pastors who endorse Romney, but it would apply to endorsing any candidate.


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03 Oct 2012, 12:49 pm

Tax them like everyone else


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Lord_Gareth
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03 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
People think it will only apply to the pastors who endorse Romney, but it would apply to endorsing any candidate.


I wasn't under this impression at all. I'm all for taxing organizations that endorse any candidate - even Wiccans preaching Green Party.


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Kraichgauer
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03 Oct 2012, 1:10 pm

I fully understand, if religious institutions were taxed, many of the smaller ones could be forced to close - and that might mean that much less contributions to food and clothing banks. But if they stick their noses into politics, we have the right to withdraw that tax exemption.
Though I will be the first to say that there are exceptions to even that rule, as the civil rights movement got its start in black churches.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Oct 2012, 2:20 pm

It might also mean that the larger churches would have to make greater contributions to those same food and clothing banks in order to deduct their value from their tax bills.

Either way, it would make church finances more transparent, at least to the government.


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Lord_Gareth
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03 Oct 2012, 4:25 pm

Out of curiosity, can anyone tell me if these pastors have a legal ground to stand on? This isn't violating any First Amendment rights; it in no way stops anyone from speaking their minds or practicing their religions. All it does is change the tax status of organizations which take in and spend money.


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ArrantPariah
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03 Oct 2012, 5:05 pm

Here is a website for "Freedom Sunday"

http://www.freedomsunday.org/

5398 churches participating.

Not to be confused with "Pulpit Freedom Sunday."



ArrantPariah
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03 Oct 2012, 5:12 pm

An interview with Jim Garlow

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... jim-garlow

He bases it on the First Amendment.



ruveyn
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03 Oct 2012, 5:17 pm

Fnord wrote:
Religious institutions should be taxed at the same rate as any other money-grubbing corporation.


If you had a meal today it was provided to you by a money-grubbing corporation, most likely. In any case without business run for profit, you and I would starve to death.

ruveyn



Fnord
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04 Oct 2012, 9:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Religious institutions should be taxed at the same rate as any other money-grubbing corporation.
If you had a meal today it was provided to you by a money-grubbing corporation, most likely. In any case without business run for profit, you and I would starve to death. ruveyn

I'm not slamming money-grubbing corporations per se; I'm just saying that no single class of money-grubbing corporation should be allowed to skip paying taxes just because they claim to have one or more gods on their side.


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AngelRho
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04 Oct 2012, 5:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I fully understand, if religious institutions were taxed, many of the smaller ones could be forced to close - and that might mean that much less contributions to food and clothing banks. But if they stick their noses into politics, we have the right to withdraw that tax exemption.
Though I will be the first to say that there are exceptions to even that rule, as the civil rights movement got its start in black churches.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The thing is, though, is that politicians are supposed to represent the interests of their constituency, which includes churchgoers among others. If a particular politician has goals in common with a certain religions group, religious folks would be interested to know that. Or if a particular politician has an agenda that squarely violates doctrinal matters, religious folks would be interested in voting against that guy. The way I grew up, it was nobody's business--not a pastor, not a church leader, not even the guy sitting on the same pew with you--who you voted for. You vote your conscience. But where public policy and religious doctrine collide, religious people deserve just as much as anybody to make an informed decision. Personally, I don't see why the pulpit is an inappropriate place to disseminate such information.

In a strange kind of way, it reminds me of a U/U "minister" who said that all Christians are cannibalistic, blood-sucking vampire-zombie worshippers and he found our religion disgusting, and in the same breath reminded the congregation that "all are welcome."

The point is that it's a tax law that really does marginalize (in a very, very small way) what a church leader can say from the pulpit. It's not something I'm really all that concerned about. I think it might be foolish to directly challenge the law. But I do understand why someone would in exceptional circumstances. And I think mentioning racial civil rights is a prime example. I think you can make more of an exception for black civil rights leaders in the church because black churches do seek to serve the interests of the black community. It's the perfect platform for mobilizing a community of an oppressed minority.

As far as I'm aware, addressing political issues has never been a reason the government would want to interfere with a church. The idea is to go after churches who endorse specific candidates.

Black preachers have long actively endorsed candidates. The only complaints I've ever heard were when predominantly white church pastors endorsed candidates. Every time, warnings and threats have gone out, but I'm unaware of any church that's gotten their exemption status yanked. So I'm not sure what the motivation is for deliberately challenging the law. I mean, it's really unenforceable, anyway, because enforcement would require that government officials to infiltrate churches and monitor their activities, and that would mean an intrusion into the churches by what would effectively be regulators. It's a clear violation of freedom of religion by that point. And why anyone would WANT the government, as if to say "I double-dog DARE you," is beyond me.



ArrantPariah
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10 Oct 2012, 4:52 pm

So, how did it go?

I'm guessing that attendance was low, given the Columbus Day holiday.



YippySkippy
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10 Oct 2012, 8:51 pm

Non-profit charities have tax exemption, so churches could still retain some exemption by keeping all their charitable expenses seperate from their religious expenses. In truth, I think the only reason churches are exempt in the first place is because they are viewed mainly as charitable organizations. My problem with this is that some churches put more of their funds towards charity than others, and also some churches discriminate against gays, non-Christians, and others.