Where the Canadian medical care system shines.

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ruveyn
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30 Jun 2012, 12:00 pm

Canada is much better than the U.S. as maintaining health (as opposed to treating acute situations). In addition Canadians probably exercise more and eat more wisely than United Stateseans.

The main failing in the U.S. is cultural. We have (collectively speaking) a rather backward view of health and of pursuing healthy habit. So we (collectively speaking) exercise less, eat more than we should (and the wrong kind of stuff), smoke too much and consume more alcohol than we should (collectively speaking). I am a contrarian. I ride 50-100 miles a week on my bike, weather permitting and I walk short distances (less than five miles) rather than use my car. But I am atypical for the United States.

Our medical system simply cannot overcome the results of bad habits and lack of good habits. That is why it is oriented toward acute care rather than health maintaining care.

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30 Jun 2012, 3:02 pm

One of the advantages of having a single-payer insurance system is that the system is incentivized to spend money on programs that will save it money in the long run.

So when the government puts money into promoting healthy eating, exercise and the like, it can justify that spending on the basis of ongoing savings in health care spending.

We're not always effective at it (government is much more likely to spend money on non-discretionary items, than to set money aside on discretionary spending--and cuts will always affect the latter more than the former), but at least we can make the effort.


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30 Jun 2012, 6:50 pm

visagrunt wrote:
One of the advantages of having a single-payer insurance system is that the system is incentivized to spend money on programs that will save it money in the long run.

So when the government puts money into promoting healthy eating, exercise and the like, it can justify that spending on the basis of ongoing savings in health care spending.

We're not always effective at it (government is much more likely to spend money on non-discretionary items, than to set money aside on discretionary spending--and cuts will always affect the latter more than the former), but at least we can make the effort.


Here the fast food industry outspends the government on advertising having to do with eating.
Such is life......



enrico_dandolo
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01 Jul 2012, 12:07 am

Raptor wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
One of the advantages of having a single-payer insurance system is that the system is incentivized to spend money on programs that will save it money in the long run.

So when the government puts money into promoting healthy eating, exercise and the like, it can justify that spending on the basis of ongoing savings in health care spending.

We're not always effective at it (government is much more likely to spend money on non-discretionary items, than to set money aside on discretionary spending--and cuts will always affect the latter more than the former), but at least we can make the effort.


Here the fast food industry outspends the government on advertising having to do with eating.
Such is life......

I am quite certain it is still true in Canada. I don't remember seeing government ads on that topic outside pharmacies, clinics and hospitals, but I see Subway, McDonald's and Tim Horton's ads everywhere, not to mention soft drinks, beer and potato chips.



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01 Jul 2012, 12:11 am

I was coming back home from downtown Montreal, and along a stretch of highway that took 10-15 minutes to traverse, I passed 4 or 5 McDonald's, a KFC, several Quebec franchises (Belle Province, etc), Dominoes Pizza, Harvey's... fast food is endemic here as well


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02 Jul 2012, 4:48 pm

Vigilans wrote:
I was coming back home from downtown Montreal, and along a stretch of highway that took 10-15 minutes to traverse, I passed 4 or 5 McDonald's, a KFC, several Quebec franchises (Belle Province, etc), Dominoes Pizza, Harvey's... fast food is endemic here as well


But your not going to find that many. Cadnadians that have a fast food adiction like most. Americans have just sayin.



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03 Jul 2012, 11:27 am

ruveyn wrote:
Canada is much better than the U.S. as maintaining health (as opposed to treating acute situations). In addition Canadians probably exercise more and eat more wisely than United Stateseans.

The main failing in the U.S. is cultural. We have (collectively speaking) a rather backward view of health and of pursuing healthy habit. So we (collectively speaking) exercise less, eat more than we should (and the wrong kind of stuff), smoke too much and consume more alcohol than we should (collectively speaking). I am a contrarian. I ride 50-100 miles a week on my bike, weather permitting and I walk short distances (less than five miles) rather than use my car. But I am atypical for the United States.

Our medical system simply cannot overcome the results of bad habits and lack of good habits. That is why it is oriented toward acute care rather than health maintaining care.

ruveyn
...Or maybe it's just the system itself. America's overall costs are twice/a third as much as that of other countries and yet its public expenditure is similar to Canada's. There's no way you can attribute this to either Government intervention or cultural failings.

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03 Jul 2012, 11:49 am

One of the perceived problems of public healthcare systems is that people resent having to pay for other people's bad choices. Because of this, public healthcare systems usually do attempt to change the culture. Obamacare cannot accomplish this, because under Obamacare the health system is still run by for-profit institutions. So in a way, Obamacare might be the worst of both worlds.



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03 Jul 2012, 3:14 pm

Declension wrote:
One of the perceived problems of public healthcare systems is that people resent having to pay for other people's bad choices. Because of this, public healthcare systems usually do attempt to change the culture. Obamacare cannot accomplish this, because under Obamacare the health system is still run by for-profit institutions. So in a way, Obamacare might be the worst of both worlds.


QFT.



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03 Jul 2012, 4:14 pm

Declension wrote:
One of the perceived problems of public healthcare systems is that people resent having to pay for other people's bad choices. Because of this, public healthcare systems usually do attempt to change the culture. Obamacare cannot accomplish this, because under Obamacare the health system is still run by for-profit institutions. So in a way, Obamacare might be the worst of both worlds.


In the end, if not imediately, nothing good will come of anything with Obama's hand in it.



ruveyn
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03 Jul 2012, 4:32 pm

Declension wrote:
One of the perceived problems of public healthcare systems is that people resent having to pay for other people's bad choices. Because of this, public healthcare systems usually do attempt to change the culture. Obamacare cannot accomplish this, because under Obamacare the health system is still run by for-profit institutions. So in a way, Obamacare might be the worst of both worlds.


Very likely the case. Anything the U.S. government touches, runs, operates or oversees turns brown and smelly very fast.

The U.S. government is run by stupid incompetent people, for the most part.

A U.S. government job gives good pay for little or no work.

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04 Jul 2012, 2:35 am

ruveyn wrote:
Very likely the case. Anything the U.S. government touches, runs, operates or oversees turns brown and smelly very fast.


Hang on. What I'm saying is that it would be better if the US government did run, operate and oversee it.



ruveyn
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04 Jul 2012, 6:48 am

Declension wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Very likely the case. Anything the U.S. government touches, runs, operates or oversees turns brown and smelly very fast.


Hang on. What I'm saying is that it would be better if the US government did run, operate and oversee it.


Bad idea. The U.S. government is run by and manned by incompetent or base individuals.

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04 Jul 2012, 6:55 am

ruveyn wrote:
Declension wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Very likely the case. Anything the U.S. government touches, runs, operates or oversees turns brown and smelly very fast.


Hang on. What I'm saying is that it would be better if the US government did run, operate and oversee it.


Bad idea. The U.S. government is run by and manned by incompetent or base individuals.


What, is it genetic or something? I don't see why American politicians would be any more incompetent than British politicians. The main criticism of American politicians that I have heard is that they are beholden to special interests. That's not incompetence, it's malice. And a public healthcare system would reduce the influence of private power, which is the source of the special interests that American politicians are beholden to.

If government is "the shadow cast by big business over society", it doesn't make sense to claim that the government is inherently evil. That would be like disowning a friend because he is sick.



ruveyn
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04 Jul 2012, 6:58 am

Declension wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Declension wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Very likely the case. Anything the U.S. government touches, runs, operates or oversees turns brown and smelly very fast.


Hang on. What I'm saying is that it would be better if the US government did run, operate and oversee it.


Bad idea. The U.S. government is run by and manned by incompetent or base individuals.


What, is it genetic or something? I don't see why American politicians would be any more incompetent than British politicians.
Our bad government originated from the time of the Andrew Jackson administration. During the Jackson Administration the franchise of voting was extended to people without property. Since these folks did not have a large stake in the system, in the fullness of time they and corrupt politicians learned to raid the treasury. That is the fatal weakness of unrestricted democracy.

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04 Jul 2012, 7:28 am

pure and utter bull on a global scale.

plenty of democracies are doing just fine despite not discriminating against anyone without a "significant investment".

by what concept does the mechanic work?
does people automatically change behaviors and thought patterns when they buy a plot of land?
or do they simply realize what they have always wanted and in that light why does the plot owner have any greater vested interest?
would it not be excactly because people dont have a plot of land yet that they want an efficient and functional government with a balanced economy to boot?


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