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dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 12:34 pm

I wrote an essay (free writing) where I questioned the enigma of time itself. I found (with philosophy) that time is a man-made tool. If it is a man-made tool, why do we think it exists?

I know that time helps us organize events, and relate better to situations. But I still think that it shouldn't be thought of as actually existing.

Mathematics plays a role on time, but mathematics is also a 'man-made tool'

Time is the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. It isn't a dimension in our world. It is simply our mind (biological clock) reacting to the earth's rotation.

See what I mean?



Scintillate
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10 Nov 2006, 1:00 pm

Its true...

In comparing quantum physics to relativity, I struggled for a while, until I realised the entire problem with correlating the two was based on time, it existed in one theory, and was totally relative in another.

Time is definately a creation of our own, it is very useful, required now, but I prefer not to think of it as a real dimension in terms of discovery..

Really for each day we've travelled an amount of space in the time we've deemed, ultimately there is only motion..


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Kosmonaut
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10 Nov 2006, 1:41 pm

What do you mean by mathematics is a 'man made tool' ?



dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 1:47 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
What do you mean by mathematics is a 'man made tool' ?


Life was not created by mathematics.

I'll share my own quote:

"I am not against mathematics, I am against those who say that is vital"

Humanity created mathematics just as they created time.



Scintillate
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10 Nov 2006, 1:51 pm

Well, mathematics itself is a language really.

Unless you're talking about how mathematics work, which can be represented in reality, but then again, its still a perception, or angle of reality.

ie:

a + b = c


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Awesomelyglorious
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10 Nov 2006, 2:17 pm

Time exists, I hardly see how a world can be conceived without time and without means for conceiving temporal relationships, the only thing is that time is subjectively perceived and has some unusual aspects in the physics of it. The measurements of time are man-made of course, as only man decides how long a second lasts just as man decided how long a meter is, but time itself is a part of reality as otherwise one cannot conceive relationships between things over time which as we all know do exist. Without the concept of time we cannot see these relations or have notions of a past nor of a future, these relations over time exist to some extent, and past and future both exist, so time must exist to distinguish between these separate things.



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Nov 2006, 2:21 pm

Scintillate wrote:
Well, mathematics itself is a language really.

Unless you're talking about how mathematics work, which can be represented in reality, but then again, its still a perception, or angle of reality.

ie:

a + b = c

Yeah, that is true, man invented the language of mathematics but the logic behind mathematics is fundementally true and all mathematics is just the language for the expression of this logic in a manner to be conceived and applied. 1+1=2 whether we have the ability to conceive it or not.



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10 Nov 2006, 2:55 pm

When you meditate, time slows down. If the "feeling" of time can be manipulated then does it exist?



dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 2:58 pm

Corvus wrote:
When you meditate, time slows down. If the "feeling" of time can be manipulated then does it exist?


You proved my point by asking that question.

Thank you!

Well if time were physical, then why can't we manipulate three-dimensional matter?



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10 Nov 2006, 3:13 pm

dgd1788 wrote:
Corvus wrote:
When you meditate, time slows down. If the "feeling" of time can be manipulated then does it exist?


You proved my point by asking that question.

Thank you!

Well if time were physical, then why can't we manipulate three-dimensional matter?


I've thought about this many times, in fact, its a great way to ENTER the deeper states meditation offers as it clears the mind..

I've always wondered why time can go fast for some and slow for others, especially during the same activity in the same place at the same time.. This has lead me to believe it doesnt exist.. If you experience it differently from someone else, what can that mean? How does that even mentally happen?



dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 3:16 pm

The reason why people think that time exists is because of: people, stimuli, and mathematics.



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Nov 2006, 3:20 pm

Corvus wrote:
When you meditate, time slows down. If the "feeling" of time can be manipulated then does it exist?

Yes of course time exists. Time represents something that happens physically, your perception of time is subjective but time exists. All that you are displaying is subjective interpretation of time which is just a matter of your perception and the imperfections of that perception. Now, lets just say you meditate and then stop meditating, is the time different between when you started meditating and when you stopped? Most assuredly yes as the time of meditation cannot be 0. This refutation of time is almost like somebody trying to refute dimension because their idea of a foot or of what is far is different from somebody else's. It isn't a refutation of the concept but rather stating that YOUR perception of what is going on may be imperfect. Let's just say that Jimmy is colorblind, does that fact mean that color does not exist?? NO! It means that for whatever reason Jimmy cannot perceive these differences in the wavelengths of light.



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Nov 2006, 3:28 pm

Corvus wrote:
I've always wondered why time can go fast for some and slow for others, especially during the same activity in the same place at the same time.. This has lead me to believe it doesnt exist.. If you experience it differently from someone else, what can that mean? How does that even mentally happen?

Well, it means that your perceptions of time are different from theirs. I mean, these people aren't perfect at measuring time so acting as if they should all think exactly the same thing is ludicrious! People perceive a lot of things differently than others, this does not mean that it does not exist, if it did then you argue a refutation of reality!!



dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 3:48 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Corvus wrote:
I've always wondered why time can go fast for some and slow for others, especially during the same activity in the same place at the same time.. This has lead me to believe it doesnt exist.. If you experience it differently from someone else, what can that mean? How does that even mentally happen?

Well, it means that your perceptions of time are different from theirs. I mean, these people aren't perfect at measuring time so acting as if they should all think exactly the same thing is ludicrious! People perceive a lot of things differently than others, this does not mean that it does not exist, if it did then you argue a refutation of reality!!


I have concieved that you don't understand the true nature of philosophy 'Awesomelyglorious' If you did, then you wouldn't criticize it, like you are doing right now.

Just enjoy life, nitpicking makes life boring!



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Nov 2006, 4:49 pm

dgd1788 wrote:
I have concieved that you don't understand the true nature of philosophy 'Awesomelyglorious' If you did, then you wouldn't criticize it, like you are doing right now.

Just enjoy life, nitpicking makes life boring!

I don't understand the true nature of philosophy? I am simply arguing for my own philosophy, which maintains the belief that reality is real and absolute. I am simply criticizing the logic for coming to your conclusions, which is far from anti-philosophical, but rather an aspect of philosophy as according to some dictionaries is defined as "inquiry into the nature of things based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods."

You do realize that your comment on enjoying life is exactly the right comment to attack philosophy in general, right? I could have just as easily said that abstract philosophizing makes life boring, just as easily as you say my "nitpicking" does, as both are intellectual exercises that draw one away from what is typically considered fun. Really though, I don't have a problem with my nitpicking and frankly I think it is a necessity that this idea about time is reviewed critically to prove its veracity or its falsity.



dgd1788
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10 Nov 2006, 6:41 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
dgd1788 wrote:
I have concieved that you don't understand the true nature of philosophy 'Awesomelyglorious' If you did, then you wouldn't criticize it, like you are doing right now.

Just enjoy life, nitpicking makes life boring!

I don't understand the true nature of philosophy? I am simply arguing for my own philosophy, which maintains the belief that reality is real and absolute. I am simply criticizing the logic for coming to your conclusions, which is far from anti-philosophical, but rather an aspect of philosophy as according to some dictionaries is defined as "inquiry into the nature of things based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods."

You do realize that your comment on enjoying life is exactly the right comment to attack philosophy in general, right? I could have just as easily said that abstract philosophizing makes life boring, just as easily as you say my "nitpicking" does, as both are intellectual exercises that draw one away from what is typically considered fun. Really though, I don't have a problem with my nitpicking and frankly I think it is a necessity that this idea about time is reviewed critically to prove its veracity or its falsity.


Fine, nitpick your heart out!