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DarthMetaKnight
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07 Nov 2012, 4:59 am

I agree with the left on many issues but I refuse to call myself "progressive". If you call yourself "progressive" then you are basically saying "I know how the future will turn out and I am just supporting what will happen anyway."

There Are Two Problems With This:
1. "Progressives" tend to support a few things that are not going their way. They tend to be anti-Zionist even though Israel was smaller in the Fifties and support environmentalism even though there were certainly more forests on this planet hundreds of years ago.
2. The future is unpredictable. In medieval Europe there was feudalism instead of capitalism but they were more religious. The ancient Athenians had full gay rights but they owned slaves. Were they ahead of us or behind us? Sometimes the direction of "progress" changes.

I don't like the term "progressive". I know too much about history to use it.

Does anyone here understand what I am saying?


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Dimorphic
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07 Nov 2012, 9:46 am

I think I get you, dude.

Personally, I don't like the term 'progressive' because the word in itself entails the concept 'progress' which is generally understood to be a positive advancement of a current situation.

However, you could have a progressive position on an agenda and it turns out that you are doing nothing but damaging the credibility of what you set out to improve. How, in any way, is that progressive?



JNathanK
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09 Nov 2012, 1:15 am

The only reason people on the center and left of center adopted the term was because conservatives turned "liberal" into a bad word through the classical conditioning that's so prevalent on right wing talk radio. Its anachronistic too, as it was used by Teddy Roosevelt supporters. They use "progressive" (change/progress) in the sense that its an antonym to "conservative (conserving/keeping the same). I don't really buy into the paradigm for different reasons, though, because I think conservation and progression are relativistic. Sometimes things need to change fast, like ending Jim Crow or discrimination against gays. and some things need to be conserved as they are, like the environment or the social safety net. Change for changes sake and keeping things the same for its own sake is a really dumb way of looking at things. What should be contextual positions to any rationally minded person have some how been transformed into team labels that appeal to caveman, chest thumping portion of our psyches.

I'll even argue that so-called conservatives are really not conservative on everything. The one's that want to do drastic things, like privatize medicare are not really conservative. They believe in rapid, possibly socially destabilizing, changes too, just as you pointed out that "progressives" contradict their selves and aren't always progressive in the true sense of the term. They should be relativistic terms that depend on situation and context, not tribal labels.



Last edited by JNathanK on 09 Nov 2012, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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09 Nov 2012, 1:19 am

They're only words, boys. They're only words.


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MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 3:52 am

JNathanK wrote:
The only reason people on the center and left of center adopted the term was because conservatives turned "liberal" into a bad word through the classical conditioning that's so prevalent on right wing talk radio. Its anachronistic too, as it was used by Teddy Roosevelt supporters. They use "progressive" (change/progress) in the sense that its an antonym to "conservative (conserving/keeping the same). I don't really buy into the paradigm for different reasons, though, because I think conservation and progression are relativistic. Sometimes things need to change fast, like ending Jim Crow or discrimination against gays. and some things need to be conserved as they are, like the environment or the social safety net. Change for changes sake and keeping things the same for its own sake is a really dumb way of looking at things. What should be contextual positions to any rationally minded person have some how been transformed into team labels that appeal to caveman, chest thumping portion of our psyches.

I'll even argue that so-called conservatives are really not conservative on everything. The one's that want to do drastic things, like privatize medicare are not really conservative. They believe in rapid, possibly socially destabilizing, changes too, just as you pointed out that "progressives" contradict their selves and aren't always progressive in the true sense of the term. They should be relativistic terms that depend on situation and context, not tribal labels.


Progress was adopted because the Left viewed history as a linear march to progress, revolution will be inevitable, they capitalistic system would destroy itself, and one should not want to then be caught on the wrong side of history. The name is Moral... those who oppose them are not. The future, they claim, is certain.

It's just a name now, most of their positions hinder progress, and most of their positions, frankly, is not new. If the GOP ever had the hutzpah to rename themselves in such a way, they should call themselves "The Morally Elevated"


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DancingDanny
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09 Nov 2012, 2:14 pm

Are you auditioning to be a radio talk show host, marketandchurch?