Rampant issues with feminism....

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Your history is incorrect.
First-wavers wanted the vote and property rights: legal equality, not political equality.
Second-wavers wanted the right to work and to have control over their own bodies, and had some interesting theories about sex, gender, and equality.
Third-wavers are largely sex-positive, and worked to expand the benefits of sexism to other 'minority' groups.

Current and up-coming feminists address 'intersectionality,' or the way that various unearned privileges interact in complex ways such that a lower-class white man might have less un-earned privilege than an upper-class asian woman, for example.

Speaking authoritatively, especially shouting authoritatively, about subjects for which you clearly have no direct information, only makes you look like a fool.

YES.



"WANTED CONTROL OVER THEIR OWN BODIES"?

"INTERESTING THEORIES ABOUT SEX"? FOR EXAMPLE?

"INTERESTING THEORIES ABOUT GENDER"? WHAT IS THERE TO THEORIZE ABOUT?

"INTERESTING THEORIES ABOUT EQUALITY"? WHAT KIND OF "EQUALITY"? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "EQUALITY"?



"SEX-POSITIVE"? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?



HAHA HA.

WOW.



WATCHING SOMEONE TALKING/POSTING REGARDING "PRIVILEGE", EARNESTLY & UNIRONICALLY, IS JUST CRINGEWORTHY.

Birth control, access to abortion, the right to health care in general without their husbands' or father's consent, etc. The home-birth movement was also started by second-wavers, who felt that hospital births were too much under the control of (largely male) gynecologists. Also: an end to exception in rape laws for married couples (i.e., before the second wave came through, it was not a crime in most places for a man to rape his wife).

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"INTERESTING THEORIES ABOUT SEX"? FOR EXAMPLE?

Many second-wavers had mixed feelings about sex, and wanted prostitution to be made illegal (where it isn't already) and pornography as well.

Quote:

"INTERESTING THEORIES ABOUT GENDER"? WHAT IS THERE TO THEORIZE ABOUT?

Whoa. You're really out of the loop. Second wavers largely speculated that gender is entirely a social construct; they hypothesized that if a boy was dressed and raised as a girl, for example, he would grow up to be a woman in every way but the physical, and vice - versa.

Quote:

Second-wavers largely thought that there should be absolute legal equality for any endeavour, with exceptions made for physical limitations: ie, women should be allowed to serve in any position in the military, or in any job, without having to meet the same physical requirements as men. If a job required that only the fastest 5% of male runners be hired, then the fastest 5% of female runners should also be hired. Third-wavers want legal equality of opportunity, but allow for physical tests; if the job requires one, for example, to be able to haul 50 feet of firehose up 5 flights of stairs in (I'm guessing) 5 minutes or less, then any man or woman who can do so should qualify, and the standards should be the same for both men and women.

Sex-positive basically means admitting that women like sex, and that there's nothing wrong with that. Third-wavers, by and large, think that prostitution should be legal and well-regulated, that porn is ok as long as it's not violent or degrading to women, and that men and women who have the same number of sexual partners should be treated the same by society: not as 'stud' and 'whore,' or '40-yea-old virgin' or 'madonna,' respectively.


Ok that one I have to give you. Obviously, my brain was faster than my fingers, and the 'ending' before 'sexism' was left out... and even that is inaccurate, since sexism hasn't ended socially. The point being that there was a lot of progress made by the first and second waves, and third-wavers recognized that but simultaneously recognized that a lot of that progress came partially at the expense of throwing people of color, gays, etc. under the bus.


ORLY?
What do you think privilege is? Do you not think that it exists, for anyone?

I speculate that the men who assert such have a pathological inability to distinguish "personal experience" and "opinions" from objective and quantifiable fact. Hence, why I "speculate" that narcissism and ego-centrism are the beating heart of most misandry/misogyny and "issues with women/men (which is also a big part of why said men/women are unable to find dates)."

If you get a spare moment, google "malignant narcissism" and see if anything sounds familiar.

BTW, on a personal note, I just did a clinical rotation with nurses in the ER. Nurses rock!

Last edited by XFilesGeek on 12 Oct 2013, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

That isn't a feminism issue, though.

Nobody has any respect for anyone being "good". Maybe they never did.

That's humanity. And that's why feminism and misogyny annoys me in equal measure. Both trying to make themselves out as gods/godesses, and both being as bad as any other typical human being.

^^^^^^^^^^^

It's the "Culture of Victimhood."

People convince themselves that their personal problems aren't their fault, and that they're really "victims" of some nebulous socio-political conspiracy. And "victims" are always "good" and "oppressors" are always "bad," therefore, they're the good, innocent little victims and whatever group they're blaming for their unhappiness are the big, bad oppressors.

Being "oppressed" seems to be a popular pastime among unhappy middle-class people with internet connections. It's an easy way to renounce all personal responsibility.

It's almost enough to make me want to turn into a stone-cold libertarian.

On a better day, when I hadn't already come under fire for the crime of having a penis, I would simply let this pass.

This has not been a good day.

See, I can't win. I want equality, that seems simple, we just treat each other like equal goddamn beings, but no, it can never happen.

And I'm not trying to make you jealous, please, I could never make anyone jealous, I am a true abomination, made wrong in every single way, I'm aware that I'm not alone because "OMG WOMEN HATE NICE GUYS" I stopped being a nice guy long, long ago, and it wasn't because some woman spurned me, it was because I realised that I was being taken for a fool by everyone, I'm alone because I am deranged and hideous and can't ever change that and can't ever expect anyone to fairly be attracted to me.

But there's always someone, always someone who will hate me for no other reason than some people of the same gender tried to restrict their rights. And that just makes me angry. I don't think I have to say why.

So just leave me alone. Stop insulting me.

Lostahome, given that you haven't been talking about how hideous American women are (unless you're a sockpuppet of AP or Red), or how you're going abroad to get a woman, I don't think that Puddingmouse was addressing you. She was addressing "men who complain about Western women," not all men or men in general. If you're not a part of that group, why act as though her comments were directed at you?

^ I wrote that post ages ago. It was, like you said, a rant against men who think all Western women are trash. As a Western woman, I think I have a right to rant about such men - seeing as I disagree with the argument that I am trash.

In some ways, I'm less bothered by it now I've met someone (a man!) who loves me anyway - but people who hate on me because of my gender combined with my ethnicity still irritate and sadden me. However, in some ways I get more upset because I've been more heterosexual lately, so I sort of care what men think more.

The solution is for me to not care what sexist men think and to realise (as I've only just learned) not all men are significantly sexist.

LKL is a resentful woman who trolls threads looking to talk about the same subject trying to argue against 100 different men on the same issue.

In other words, you have no counter-argument and are looking for attention.

Gotcha.

LKL stole his basketball in another thread, and he's still butthurt about it.

Yeah, we men are in the least insignificantly sexist.

Which other thread are you talking about? The libertarian thread that I just now saw and responded to?

Hey... aren't you the first man to play in the WNBA

Ah another man hater I see? Resorting to personal attacks already?