Supreme Court to Decide Legality of Selling Used Items

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Who do you think will win the Supreme Court decision?
Mr. Supap Kirtsaeng 70%  70%  [ 7 ]
The Textbook Publishers 20%  20%  [ 2 ]
Just show the results 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 10

ArrantPariah
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27 Nov 2012, 2:24 pm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedi ... sed-items/

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Legality Of Selling Used Items
Thailand native Supap Kirtsaeng, a mathematics student at the University of Southern California, noticed that some of the college textbooks he used and sampled from his local college bookstore were selling at a lower price in Thailand than here in the United States. To him, it was the ideal arbitrage opportunity and allowed him to buy the books in Thailand and sell them in the U.S. It worked so well that it earned him around $1 million. The underlying publishers were Wiley and some other rivals, and the size of his revenue caught their attention. Unfortunately for the enterprising student, Wiley sued him for copyright infringement and won the case. A judge in Manhattan on the Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered Kirtsaeng to pay the company $600,000. The case is still being fought and has moved up the judicial ladder, with the U.S. Supreme Court to decide on the case soon. A 1998 Supreme Court decision has already made it possible for the original copyright owner to profit from the original sale of merchandise. This is now known as the first-sale doctrine and generally applies to U.S.-made products.

First-Sale Doctrine
The unfavorable ruling against Kirtsaeng represents a twist on the first-sale doctrine and was made with the conclusion that the doctrine doesn’t apply to goods made overseas. Basically, anything produced outside of the U.S. doesn’t fit the doctrine’s original purposes. This has huge ramifications for the secondary marketplace.

If the Supreme Court rules against Kirtsaeng and in favor of Wiley, consumers who sell goods on eBay or any secondary marketplace could face copyright infringement charges for any products made overseas. This will lead to huge uncertainty. It is not always certain where goods are made, and products these days contain parts from around the world. It brings up many questions, such as if the final place of assembly counts as the country of origin, or if a certain percent of the raw materials are made overseas, for instance.

Firms including eBay, Costco and secondhand stores are clearly supporting Kirtsaeng and hope the first-sale doctrine is applied to all goods internationally. Other copyrighters that are subject to frequent piracy, including firms that own media rights to recorded music, film and related entertainment, would like to see more stringent restrictions on the sale of their goods in the secondary market. As such, they would like to see Wiley prevail.

Secondhand Marketplaces Paying Attention
If Wiley does win, consumers would have to get approval from the original manufacturer to sell a good online, to a secondhand store or another consumer. If manufacturers don’t grant approval, it could grind these marketplaces to a halt. Manufacturers could also choose to be difficult and make the approval overly difficult or slow, which would also adversely impact the market.

On the flip side, going after their own customers could prove challenging. For starters, it would be extremely bad for business. It would also be cumbersome and nearly impossible to track down all potentially illicit activities. Legal fees could pile up, especially since copyrighting a product isn’t that difficult, and it is doubtful whether pursuing legal action would be economical in many cases. Going after someone who sold a $10 DVD is hardly worth pursuing....

The Bottom Line
A Supreme Court ruling in favor of Wiley would greatly complicate the buying and selling of used goods on the secondary market. No one is putting odds on which decision will be reached, but it seems logical that the first-sale doctrine should apply to both domestic and foreign items.


The article doesn't say if Mr. Kirtsaeng was buying bootlegged copies of textbooks from Thailand, or if he was buying textbooks that Wiley legitimately sells at a lower price in Thailand, and reselling them in the USA. Similar to prescription drugs being sold cheaper in Canada, and some Americans ordering their prescriptions from Canadian pharmacies to save money.

Most of us who have been to college/university certainly resented the extortionate prices that students are charged for textbooks. The Supreme Court's decision could certainly have a lot of ramifications either way.

Who do you think will win? Whom do you hope to win?



ianorlin
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27 Nov 2012, 2:49 pm

A win for Wiley will mean that firms will get more market power and less competiton and will be bad for the economy as a whole. Why do you want to make it easier for Americans to face price discrimination.



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27 Nov 2012, 4:03 pm

Seems like Mr. Kirtsaeng was just being a good capitalist,buy low sell high.I think he is a savvy businessman .Wish I had an idea like that.



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2012, 4:10 pm

What is the government doing in the business of regulating published material?

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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27 Nov 2012, 4:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
What is the government doing in the business of regulating published material?

ruveyn


The government decides who owns the property rights, and defends the rights of the property owners.



LKL
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27 Nov 2012, 6:39 pm

This kind of thing makes me want to grind my teeth. I'm glad that there are some corporations behind Kirtsaeng; otherwise, this court would be sure to find against him.



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2012, 7:54 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
What is the government doing in the business of regulating published material?

ruveyn


The government decides who owns the property rights, and defends the rights of the property owners.


It seem to me that if you have a book which you bought legally or received as a gift, you should be able to sell to whomsoever you please who will pay your price. The publisher owns the -rights- but you own -the book-.

ruveyn



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27 Nov 2012, 8:01 pm

Companies sell goods cheaper to foreign countries because that's all they can afford.



ArrantPariah
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29 Nov 2012, 1:52 pm

LKL wrote:
This kind of thing makes me want to grind my teeth. I'm glad that there are some corporations behind Kirtsaeng; otherwise, this court would be sure to find against him.


In principle, the Supreme Court is supposed to make its decisions based on the Constitution, rather than upon corporate backing. Corporations can influence Congress all they want, but are supposed to lay off the Supreme Court.



LKL
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29 Nov 2012, 8:33 pm

In principle, yes, but the current majority is philosophically very pro-corporatist and anti-individual rights. Even if they're not getting paid off for elections, they think that supporting corporations at the expense of everything else is the morally correct thing to do.



ruveyn
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29 Nov 2012, 8:35 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
LKL wrote:
This kind of thing makes me want to grind my teeth. I'm glad that there are some corporations behind Kirtsaeng; otherwise, this court would be sure to find against him.


In principle, the Supreme Court is supposed to make its decisions based on the Constitution, rather than upon corporate backing. Corporations can influence Congress all they want, but are supposed to lay off the Supreme Court.


Ho. Ho. Ho. The Cronies will bribe anyone willing to take the bribe.

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visagrunt
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30 Nov 2012, 11:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
It seem to me that if you have a book which you bought legally or received as a gift, you should be able to sell to whomsoever you please who will pay your price. The publisher owns the -rights- but you own -the book-.

ruveyn


Fine, erase the print and sell the paper and bindings. Otherwise you cannot separate the book from the license to use the copyrighted material.

From a public policy perspective, do we want people to be able to purchase wholesale goods in regulated, price-controlled markets and then use those lower priced goods to undercut the domestic market? In the bad old days, the immediate response would have been a tarriff barrier--but governments have hitched their wagons to the free-trade horses and so now government is left with its basket of non-tariff measures.

I suspect that this will lead to a big push towards electronic distribution of printed work, where publishers are no longer confronted with the issue of resale because the purchaser never buys a hard copy, merely a license.


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30 Nov 2012, 12:06 pm

As long as the books were not illegal copies, I see no reason why Mr. K should be prevented from selling them. Hasn't anyone on the Supreme Court ever heard of a used book store?? And what about the college he was undercutting - they were also selling used books. Are colleges going to be prevented from doing so in the future? Will guys in trench coats soon be beckoning people into alleys in order to sell them tattered copies of "1984"?



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30 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

or what about the implications to electronics,

they have hundreds of licenses attached once you start counting the components.

in truth that anyone will even entertain such an idea is beyond me.
it flies in the face of "modern" knowledge, intellectuality and the free dissemination of ideas that allowed said companies to even exist in the first place.


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30 Nov 2012, 1:26 pm

The editions of the books sold overseas (usually with cheaper binding) are not intended for sale in the US, and typically contain a notice to the effect that selling them here is illegal. My topology book has such a notice on the front cover. The reason is that the books have to be sold cheaper overseas because no Bangladeshi student has the cash to buy a $200 book for every class. The publishers mark up the prices when selling to rich Westerners to make up the balance.

The academic publishing industry is a terrible racket. Open-access is the way to go, but it won't gain traction until professors decide to use (and contribute to) free and open materials, and that won't happen for at least a generation. The old professors are mostly set in their ways.


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ArrantPariah
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30 Nov 2012, 1:39 pm

Orwell wrote:
The editions of the books sold overseas (usually with cheaper binding) are not intended for sale in the US, and typically contain a notice to the effect that selling them here is illegal. My topology book has such a notice on the front cover. The reason is that the books have to be sold cheaper overseas because no Bangladeshi student has the cash to buy a $200 book for every class. The publishers mark up the prices when selling to rich Westerners to make up the balance.

The academic publishing industry is a terrible racket. Open-access is the way to go, but it won't gain traction until professors decide to use (and contribute to) free and open materials, and that won't happen for at least a generation. The old professors are mostly set in their ways.


Also, some of the professors write textbooks, and can make money hand-over-fist in this racket.