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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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12 Dec 2012, 3:27 pm

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from the book Good Wives, Nasty Wenches, & Anxious Patriarchs: Gender, Race, and Power in Colonial Virginia, Kathleen Brown, U. of North Carolina Press, Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture (sponsored jointly by the College of William and Mary and the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation), 1996. This book also won the 1997 John H. Dunning Prize in United States History, American Historical Association.

pages 180-181:

“ . . . As convicts fell into disfavor by the 1670s and slaves became more accessible, owing in part to the Royal African Company’s search for new markets, Africans appeared in Virginia in increasing numbers. By the 1680s, the prices of white indentured servant men had risen enough to make the purchase of African slaves a good investment.[115]

“The Africans who arrived in the colony during the final quarter of the century confronted the racially charged aftermath of Bacon’s genocidal campaign against Indians. Despite the royal commissioners’ attempts to discourage the prolonged service of Indian prisoners of war, the Virginia Assembly of 1677 ordered Indians taken captive to be kept as slaves. Over the next few years, new restrictions lumped those Indians together with Africans into one legal category designated ‘negroes and other slaves.’ By 1682, the Assembly had decided that owners of Indian women ‘ought to pay levies in like manner as negroe women.’ Virginia planters also reiterated the prohibition on Africans and Indians escaping perpetual bondage by converting to Christianity. As of 1682, all servants ‘whether Negroes, Moors, Mollattoes and Indians’ were to be considered slaves if their parents and native country were not Christian at the time of their first purchase [emphasis added].[116] Built on an earlier legal foundation of racial differentiation that had been newly politicized by Bacon’s Rebellion, racism toward Africans and Indians swelled during the 1680s and 1690s.

“Enslaved African men bore the brunt of measures designed to ensure tranquility in the aftermath of the rebellion because they were potentially rebellious male laborers in a colony that had just witnessed the devastation of widespread military rebellion.[117] Virginia’s planters excluded them from the privileges of white manhood that hard experience had already shown to be dangerously empowering and conducive to rebellion. During the last quarter of the seventeenth century, white legislators systematically stripped enslaved men of the trappings of masculinity enjoyed by white men: propertyownership, gun possession, and access to white women. In doing so, they transformed the rebellious potential of autonomous white men into a form of domestic patriarchy that reinforced rather than undermined the social order. . . ”

===============================

[115] Menard, “From Servants to Slaves,” Southern Studies, XVI (1977), 355-390; David W. Galenson, Traders, Planters, and Slaves: Market Behavior in Early English America (New York, 1986), 67. See also “Conway Robinson’s Notes,” in MCGC [Minutes of the Council and General Court of Colonial Virginia], 494, 519, for mention of a contract for slaves with the Royal African Company. [H.R. McIlwaine, ed., Minutes of the Council and General Court of Colonial Virginia, 2d ed. (Richmond, Va., 1979).]

[116] SAL [Statutes at Large], Feb. 20, 1677, II, 404; Nov. 10, 1682, II, 490, 492. [William Waller Hening, ed., The Statutes at Large; Being a Collection of All the Laws of Virginia, from the First Session of the Legislature, 13 vols. (1823; facsimile reprint, Charlottesville, Va., 1969).]

[117] Edmund Morgan, American Slavery, American Freedom, 328.

Yes, I added emphasis to that sentence. Please do notice how Christianity is redefined in order to allow slavery to roll forward.



1000Knives
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12 Dec 2012, 4:06 pm

So? North Korea is officially Godless and it's a slave state.



Fnord
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12 Dec 2012, 4:12 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
... Please do notice how Christianity is redefined in order to allow slavery to roll forward.

While I would agree that the definition of "Christian" has always seemed to change to fit the description of those who hold power over others, Christianity itself has never been "officially" defined as anti-slavery. Not even El Nazareno condemned the institution of slavery or the subjugation of women as second-class citizens.


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androbot2084
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12 Dec 2012, 7:21 pm

Slavery still exists , try to quit the military.



Fnord
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12 Dec 2012, 7:36 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Slavery still exists , try to quit the military.

I did, and received an "Honorable Discharge".

If you volunteer, then it's service; If you're conscripted, then it's servitude.


I assume that you've never been in the military.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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13 Dec 2012, 4:14 pm

My point is, that it's important to have some understanding of the transition from indentured servitude to slavery, I guess especially for those of us who are American citizens. I mean, it was a pretty lousy chapter in our country's history.

And maybe it didn't have to be this way. Maybe even with the greater economic gains on the table, the people of colonial Virginia could have decided, no, it's too high a price to pay, it's not worth it. There has to be a better way.



1000Knives
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13 Dec 2012, 5:07 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
My point is, that it's important to have some understanding of the transition from indentured servitude to slavery, I guess especially for those of us who are American citizens. I mean, it was a pretty lousy chapter in our country's history.

And maybe it didn't have to be this way. Maybe even with the greater economic gains on the table, the people of colonial Virginia could have decided, no, it's too high a price to pay, it's not worth it. There has to be a better way.


"There is nothing new under the sun."

We employ people in China, India, other Third World countries for basically slave labor conditions (sometimes literal slavery in those parts of the world) so we can have $80 Android tablets and the like. The infanticide of old has been replaced with abortion, as times goes by, we learn to substitute one sin for another, so we can feel better about ourselves and go "well at least we're not doing what our barbaric ancestors did" when we pretty much are.



Sylkat
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13 Dec 2012, 10:01 pm

So sadly true,

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Raptor
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13 Dec 2012, 10:13 pm

Quote:
We employ people in China, India, other Third World countries for basically slave labor conditions (sometimes literal slavery in those parts of the world) so we can have $80 Android tablets and the like.


I guess they figure since it's over there out of sight-out of mind it's not the same as slavery.


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Raymond_Fawkes
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14 Dec 2012, 10:31 am

If you work for around minimum wage in the States, I'd call that slavery. You cannot live off that, and would need to work multiple jobs. Economic slavery in today's world is probably cheaper than actual slavery in historical context. Not to mention, the sex industry for example. All different forms of slavery exist today, private prisons are another racket that I'd call the new slave trade.



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2012, 11:18 am

Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
If you work for around minimum wage in the States, I'd call that slavery. You cannot live off that, and would need to work multiple jobs. .


Which means one can live by his labor. Not wonderfully well, but it beats dead or dying, yes? There are people in Uganda who would gladly trade places with the poor, poor wage slaves.

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naturalplastic
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14 Dec 2012, 11:36 am

That is interesting- how we slide into the slave system.

That rule that "no christian can own another christian as a slave" got to be a little too convient for the valuable property ( just find Jesus and you're no longer property), and a little too INconvenient for the owners of the property ( Jesus was stealing their property). So they modified the rule to "no christian can own someone from an historically christian COUNTRY")- a big difference. That was the moment America sold its soul for a mess of potage - and has been paying the price ever since.



Raymond_Fawkes
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14 Dec 2012, 11:41 am

ruveyn wrote:
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
If you work for around minimum wage in the States, I'd call that slavery. You cannot live off that, and would need to work multiple jobs. .


Which means one can live by his labor. Not wonderfully well, but it beats dead or dying, yes? There are people in Uganda who would gladly trade places with the poor, poor wage slaves.

ruveyn


"One can live by his labor" .. you can't live on minimum wage .. beats dead or dying? Of course. Historically, I look at how slaves were treated. They were house, fed, and the women cooked, acted in a nanny role. They were in essence apart of the family, and that gave great stability. I'm sure physical slavery in Africa is bad, however they still haveto eat.. still haveto be housed.. their labor is stable. It's a hard life, but a life.



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2012, 11:47 am

Raymond_Fawkes wrote:

"One can live by his labor" .. you can't live on minimum wage .. beats dead or dying? Of course. Historically, I look at how slaves were treated. They were house, fed, and the women cooked, acted in a nanny role. They were in essence apart of the family, and that gave great stability. I'm sure physical slavery in Africa is bad, however they still haveto eat.. still haveto be housed.. their labor is stable. It's a hard life, but a life.


What about two minimum wages and a 65 hour week. It is hard, but it is doable. Combined with sharing living quarters with other parties and pooling the money to buy food from co-ops it is doable. No one said it was comfortable or easy. For a few years, my wife and I lived on minimum wages. We had to get fresh unprepared food at bargain prices and forgo some of the fancy packaged stuff. We both worked, so that is two salaries right there. And then I took an extra job. Two and half salaries. Not exactly the American Dream, but it is far from the African of Hataian nightmare.

ruveyn



Raymond_Fawkes
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14 Dec 2012, 11:54 am

ruveyn wrote:
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:

"One can live by his labor" .. you can't live on minimum wage .. beats dead or dying? Of course. Historically, I look at how slaves were treated. They were house, fed, and the women cooked, acted in a nanny role. They were in essence apart of the family, and that gave great stability. I'm sure physical slavery in Africa is bad, however they still haveto eat.. still haveto be housed.. their labor is stable. It's a hard life, but a life.


What about two minimum wages and a 65 hour week. It is hard, but it is doable. Combined with sharing living quarters with other parties and pooling the money to buy food from co-ops it is doable. No one said it was comfortable or easy. For a few years, my wife and I lived on minimum wages. We had to get fresh unprepared food at bargain prices and forgo some of the fancy packaged stuff. We both worked, so that is two salaries right there. And then I took an extra job. Two and half salaries. Not exactly the American Dream, but it is far from the African of Hataian nightmare.

ruveyn


If you can find two jobs, and 65 hours a week.. good luck lol. It helps with two salaries, and extra help yes. Also I'm curious, would you rather live as a slave in the US in the 1800's, or in Africa during the 1800's in tribes, living in huts, always engaged in tribal warfare. The risks/ rewards, which one do you think would be better and why?



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14 Dec 2012, 12:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Slavery still exists , try to quit the military.

I did, and received an "Honorable Discharge".

If you volunteer, then it's service; If you're conscripted, then it's servitude.


I assume that you've never been in the military.


Yes, but when you volunteered, wasn't it for a set period of time? Would they have let you out before that time was up, simply because you wanted to leave? I'm sure if you had a legitimate medical reason or something like that, they might, but otherwise....