An answer to Western "peaceniks" on Israel

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqHPHYzVKXU[/youtube]

“As Muslims, our blood vengeance against them [the Jews] will only subside with their annihilation, Allah willing.”

There goes your Muslim. Different mountain. Different god.

ruveyn

Can you show me where in the Jewish texts where the killing of Muslims is called for? Answers on a postcard please.

(Yes, I know that Judaism was around for far longer than Islam.)

The destruction of Amelakites is commanded by G-D through Moses. The Israelites never did it though.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek

ruveyn

I looked at that Wikipedia link, and I gotta tell you, going by some of the modern Jews quoted in the article, Hamas doesn't have a corner on lunacy!
But trust me, I am fully aware that the actions of Hamas are without a doubt worse.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The Israelites of Blblical Time were only ten hairs removed from being orangitans. They were as bad a** as any Jihadist in current times. The idea of the bearded old Jewish scholar is something that was invented during the Exile. It simply did not exist for Israelites in Biblical Times.

The Jews got the sh*t kicked out of them several times (historically) and from that they learned how to abide in strange lands not their own. They also acquired better manners in the process. That is more or less how Judaism was purged of its wildness. The same has yet to happen to Muslims.

ruveyn

You should judge people by what they do, not what they say.

When you have power, you can afford to do terrible things and sound reasonable at the same time. When you are weak, all you have is bluster. If there is any correlation between having the moral high ground and sounding reasonable, it's probably a negative correlation.

Agreed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The Koran gets it violence from the Old Testament, the irony is they are theatrically very similar doctrines,


Christianity has gone down the route several times, however I believe that Jesus movement originally was much less about doctrine and much more about subverting the status quo. A very clever piece of propaganda, aimed at Roman rule, and the local elite. Whats's more you can say itwas pretty successful, look what happened. it just got out of hand after.

Yes I'm saying so far as there was a person called Isa, he probably didn't think he was the son of god, etc. Early Christianity is a quite different animal from what we have to day, it was essentially an offshoot from Judaism. but it subverted ideas that were very unpopular for those who where not in positions of authority.

The Torah keeps it specific on who gets killed, it's contained to a certain time in history. If you're an amelakite, or a caananite, you're in trouble. And no Jew should ever argue that the Torah isn't violent, but like I said, it's contained to certain peoples during a specific time in history. Is it what it is.


MEANWHILE, Islam keeps it very vague....the non believer.....and there's nothing specific about time.... the killing of non believers is timeless, and anyone can be a non believer.

you guys should understand the difference....

It is funny that The Israelite would kill Canaanites, since that is kind of like killing themselves or their origins. Ask archeologists in this field Israelites and Summarians, where from Canaanite culture. Many of the odd rituals that are sometimes still present come from Canaanite religion and from other regional cultures like Asyrian. So far as coming out of slaves from Egypt this is uncorroborated, and certainly doesn't change that cultural connection to Canaanites.

If you were talking about Babylonians, there might be a point there. It is because of the Babylonians that we have a monotheistic rather than a polytheistic Abrahamic faith, and this is very much a reaction again the first invasion, more not wanting Babylonian gods to be worshiped than the concept as we understand it today.

I agree more with ruveyn, their behavior is shaped by experience. the examples you talk about are more universal than you think. it is just a different style of writing.

However that is not to say their isn't a resurgence of extremist views, and terrorist activity, and these people are very similar to Islamic terrorists, they believe they are acting in good faith, they are justified, and they are quite happy to tell you that god is vengeful. Whatsmore these sort of people are living is places that is more likely to put them in conflict with Arabs. Assualts, murders, and economic terrorism is on the increase.

There are ultra-right Jewish fanatics that refer to the Jihadis as Amalekites. Which means they believe in their extermination That would be Jewish Genocide (I am ashamed to say). But this gush emunim types might have a point.

ruveyn

If you're not involved in something bad personally, you have nothing to be ashamed of. What tribe or country hasn't done something bad to someone else in their time?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Leviticus 25

44 “‘Concerning the men and women you may have as slaves: you are to buy men- and women-slaves from the nations surrounding you. 45 You may also buy the children of foreigners living with you and members of their families born in your land; you may own these. 46 You may also bequeath them to your children to own; from these groups you may take your slaves forever. But as far as your brothers the people of Isra’el are concerned, you are not to treat each other harshly.

Now the question you should be asking is whether its better to be dead over not adhering to a religious ideology or enslaved because you're not the right race or tribe.

Interesting reading up on Gush Emunim... I think at the end of the day, you'd have to stretch to find justification for violence in the Torah, an open ended commandment to kill people. These guys are clever in their interpretation, but I dont think the Torah teaches extermination during the messianic age, and no Jew should support these guys if they are talking about extermination......

This is all vastly different than the open ended violence in Islam....

In the Messianic Age there won't even be blood sacrifice at the restored Temple. It will be meal offerings only.

ruveyn