Bureaucratic absurdities of the EU, the Light Bulb:)

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pawelk1986
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06 Jan 2013, 5:46 am

The EU introduce ban the sale of traditional light bulbs, supposedly in defense of the environment is really in the interest of scammers producing eco bulbs.

People in my country so happened that a member of the European Union, they prefer to buy traditional light bulbs from the Russian smuggler than to give the earn this to money hunger scammers with their eco s**t with it not so ECO after all..



Tequila
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06 Jan 2013, 6:06 am

Isn't there a hard eurosceptic party you can vote for in Poland who aren't loopers? I'd recommend United Poland, but I'm not at all happy about what they say with regards to gay people and the support for the general arse stain on humanity that is the Roman Catholic Church, for a start.



rabbittss
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06 Jan 2013, 6:51 am

Considering my own experience with the high efficiency bulbs.. I have to say it's no scam.. I was given quite a few of them by my Electrical Co-Op of all people ( ya know, who have a vested interest in me burning power since that gives them money) and after replacing the bulk of my bulbs with CFL's I've noticed a drop in my electric bill every month.. I've not changed my habits at all, I still turn lights off when I leave the room, and still stay up all hours of the night.. but I've noticed a big change.. just like I did when I swapped my A/C to an Energy Star rated system.. Not to mention the CFL's are not nearly as prone to blowing out if you have any sort of surge or spike in power... so I've saved money there too..



arthead
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06 Jan 2013, 9:08 am

Yes they give you a brighter light with a lower energy use, but they are not without their issues.

They are full of mercury and require a specific cleaning process if broken. http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Recent studies have shown that they may also cause cancer from the ultra violet light they give off. http://www.livescience.com/25999-cfl-uv-radiation-skin.html

Starting a few days ago it is now illegal to produce incandescent bulbs below either 75 or 100 watts (I can't remember which) here in the U.S.
I personally have both types of bulbs in use, but I find it very bothersome for people to be force fed one over the other through legislation. They (apparently) safer option costs a bit more in the long run, but people should have the right to choose for themselves. If the market kills one off through choice then so be it.



rabbittss
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06 Jan 2013, 9:20 am

If it had been left up to the market we'd still be using aerosols with CFC's and detergent with phosphates in it.. and probably have no O-zone layer or freshwater aquatics left.. Perhaps we would still be using Asbestos also.

Sometimes the Market just takes too damn long...


But, to be honest, Everything, and i do mean everything, causes cancer according to some study or another. I think it's more along the lines of simple probability due to the vast number of individual cells in the human body that can suddenly lose the plot and go off to do whatever they feel like.. they only need the slightest hint of anything encouraging for them to do it..



The_Walrus
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06 Jan 2013, 11:22 am

arthead wrote:
Yes they give you a brighter light with a lower energy use, but they are not without their issues.

They are full of mercury and require a specific cleaning process if broken. http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Recent studies have shown that they may also cause cancer from the ultra violet light they give off. http://www.livescience.com/25999-cfl-uv-radiation-skin.html

Starting a few days ago it is now illegal to produce incandescent bulbs below either 75 or 100 watts (I can't remember which) here in the U.S.
I personally have both types of bulbs in use, but I find it very bothersome for people to be force fed one over the other through legislation. They (apparently) safer option costs a bit more in the long run, but people should have the right to choose for themselves. If the market kills one off through choice then so be it.
CFLs are not the entirety of eco-friendly light bulbs.

The amount of mercury they contain is small, and replacing an incandescent bulb with a CFL will actually reduce your mercury output as the decrease in energy usage will save more mercury than is in the bulb http://www.livescience.com/1656-green-l ... dient.html Of course, the mercury is arguably more dangerous in a domestic setting (where it is relatively concentrated) than in the environment.



rabbittss
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06 Jan 2013, 11:26 am

I'm planning to replace some of my CFL's (which will then be kept for spares) with LED's as soon as I can afford to do so.. right now 20$ per bulb is still a bit too much even with the projected energy cost savings..

The only Incandescent in my house right now is my reading lamp. Florescents just wash the paper out too much and make it hard to read.



pawelk1986
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06 Jan 2013, 1:30 pm

arthead wrote:
Yes they give you a brighter light with a lower energy use, but they are not without their issues.

They are full of mercury and require a specific cleaning process if broken. http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Recent studies have shown that they may also cause cancer from the ultra violet light they give off. http://www.livescience.com/25999-cfl-uv-radiation-skin.html

Starting a few days ago it is now illegal to produce incandescent bulbs below either 75 or 100 watts (I can't remember which) here in the U.S.
I personally have both types of bulbs in use, but I find it very bothersome for people to be force fed one over the other through legislation. They (apparently) safer option costs a bit more in the long run, but people should have the right to choose for themselves. If the market kills one off through choice then so be it.


You are American, i presume, your country borders with Mexico, you can always smuggle bulbs from Mexico :D
My country on other borders with Mexico with Russia, so I can bought smuggled light bulb from there, Finally, there is some benefit from these smugglers :D



Tequila
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06 Jan 2013, 1:34 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
My country on other borders with Mexico with Russia, so I can bought smuggled light bulb from there, Finally, there is some benefit from these smugglers :D


What would they do then? Smuggle 'em in from Kaliningrad?



xmh
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06 Jan 2013, 2:00 pm

I saw the suggestion that it would be legal to make/sell "100W heaters" that happen to emit some light.

It is legal to make/sell "rough service" bulbs (for industrial use, but work in domestic fittings) that are over the wattage limit Telegraph link

Any bulbs with a reflector, or aimed at non-domestic usage are legal.



pawelk1986
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07 Jan 2013, 12:56 am

Tequila wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
My country on other borders with Mexico with Russia, so I can bought smuggled light bulb from there, Finally, there is some benefit from these smugglers :D


What would they do then? Smuggle 'em in from Kaliningrad?


Right :D



Krabo
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07 Jan 2013, 9:19 am

There's a loophole: build a sauna and you're allowed to import bulbs. No smuggling needed.


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lotuspuppy
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07 Jan 2013, 10:54 am

I find it ironic that the EU's coal consumption is increasing, despite their official policy that gives them the most stringent clean air laws in the world. I guess their opposition to fracking and Germany's phase-out of nuclear energy are contributing factors. Ironic how environmental policies get in the way of one another.

Meanwhile, the pollution-loving U.S. has seen the largest absolute drop in CO2 emissions in the past five years than any other country, including the EU. Just saying.



ianorlin
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07 Jan 2013, 11:09 am

arthead wrote:
Yes they give you a brighter light with a lower energy use, but they are not without their issues.

They are full of mercury and require a specific cleaning process if broken. http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Recent studies have shown that they may also cause cancer from the ultra violet light they give off. http://www.livescience.com/25999-cfl-uv-radiation-skin.html

Starting a few days ago it is now illegal to produce incandescent bulbs below either 75 or 100 watts (I can't remember which) here in the U.S.
I personally have both types of bulbs in use, but I find it very bothersome for people to be force fed one over the other through legislation. They (apparently) safer option costs a bit more in the long run, but people should have the right to choose for themselves. If the market kills one off through choice then so be it.
75 or 100 watts as a limit why that? then woun't people put in 75 or a 100 watt bulbs which cause light pollution. Will the market let me choose for myself? Where and lead to good choices where can I buy a car with windows I roll up manually which are better if you don't have arthritis and give you better mileage fuel economy and performance from low weight.



visagrunt
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07 Jan 2013, 1:28 pm

Hardly bureaucratic absurdity.

Electricity consumption is a huge issue. Generating plants have finite capacity with which to respond to consumer demand. They are expensive to build, and every one of them is either environmentally controversial (coal-fired, nuclear, hydroelectric) inefficient (solar) or both (wind farms). So when faced with demand that overtakes capacity, there are two options: damn the protests and build new plants, or make the existing capacity go farther.

Traditional incandescents are grossly ineffcient, using only about 10% of their power consumption to produce light. The rest is lost as heat. Furthermore, they have a short lifespan, and impose a significant cost in manufacturing and the evironmental consequences of manufacture. Alternative incandescents, like reflectors and halogens present some efficiencies, but they are not risk free--particularly as they tend to focus the excess heat energy. And their energy savings (rougly 30%) pale in comparison to those of CFLs and LEDs.

A 60W incandescent light bulb that burns for 6 hours every day consumes 131 kWh in a year. A compact fluorescent will use roughly 20-25% of that, freeing up some 100 kWh. According to Statistics Canada, a typical residence uses 40 GJ of electricity per year (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-526-s/2 ... 04-eng.htm), this is equivalent to about 11,000 kWh. So switching 100 60W incandescents to CFL will save one entire household's electricity consumption. With LEDs, the savings are even greater.

And while it is true that CFLs contain mercury, the output of mercury from their use, from breakage, and from improper disposal is significantly outweighed by the mercury output from coal fired electricity plants. The excess concumption of incandescent bulbs imposes a greater mercury load on the environment than the CFL over the lifespan of the CFL.

They're certainly not perfect--the flicker (particularly in countries with 50 Hz AC rather than 60 Hz), and the harder blue tint are problems, but neither is insurmountable. And as cost comes down on LEDs and their enourmous range of colour selection, the incadescent's advantage will ebb.


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The_Walrus
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07 Jan 2013, 2:08 pm

lotuspuppy wrote:
I find it ironic that the EU's coal consumption is increasing, despite their official policy that gives them the most stringent clean air laws in the world. I guess their opposition to fracking and Germany's phase-out of nuclear energy are contributing factors. Ironic how environmental policies get in the way of one another.

Meanwhile, the pollution-loving U.S. has seen the largest absolute drop in CO2 emissions in the past five years than any other country, including the EU. Just saying.

Absolute drops probably aren't the basis to judge countries on. I would say a hypothetical 90% drop from Tuvalu is more commendable than a 0.1% drop from the USA.

But yes, Germany's irrational fear of nuclear energy is irresponsible and essentially makes it impossible for it to ever be low-carbon.