outsourcing, possible source of aggression?

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snake321
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26 Dec 2006, 9:52 pm

Well.... Ok, many financially strong American companies, such as Ambercrombie, and companies that sale designer clothes and colognes and what not..... They produce their goods in overseas sweatshops, anyone over there, be they man, woman, and child, are at a potential risk of being swept up into what is practically slave labor, human trafficking, outsourcing, whatever you wanna call it. Conditions in these shops are very extreme, and people often die in these sweatshops.
Same can be said of diamonds... Where do they come from? I'll tell you...... In Angola, theyr forced into slave labor to mine diamonds, not much different than those sweat shops. it seems to me that the "alphas" can't even make a fashion statement without oppressing someone else, a "lesser person". This is why the 3rd world countries are angry at America.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I love what my country stands for on paper, but lets be realistic here. How would YOU feel if your family was dying in the droves, forced to work in hostile condtions, for the equivalent of $0.08 a day?....... These companies need to be stopped, it makes my stomache turn to even think about this kind of bs. I mean these are human beings for #%^& sake!....... This really needs to stop, obviously people haven't learned too much since the African slave trade.
Of coarse this has happened to people all throughout history though.



Awesomelyglorious
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26 Dec 2006, 11:35 pm

No, this has little to do with outsourcing. We actually do them a benefit by offering them jobs in the first place and other countries would clamor for our trade agreements, they agree to trade with us, we aren't using another form of imperialism. You assume that these people would be better off if we didn't trade with them, however, that is not the case one bit as through trade we give them money that they use to fuel economic growth and improve their standards of living which is what is currently fueling Chinese economic growth to some extent. The reason why conditions are so bad is because economic conditions are horrible, workers are willing to work horrible conditions for low pay rather than face the alternatives, after all having child sweatshop labor is significantly better than having child prostitution which is what many countries end up dealing with, as well, the low pay goes farther in those nations as well, which can be seen from charity commercials where your pennies a day can improve the life of some child over there.

The reason why the third world doesn't like America is because of American foreign policy throughout the ages and also our power and ideological differences to a good extent as well. We have intervened in the workings of many foreign nations out of self-interest and because of this we are distrusted. As well, we are the most powerful nation in the world and tend to represent capitalism, so nations that feel repressed and lean socialist will tend to blame us for their misfortune.



Fuzzy
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27 Dec 2006, 2:13 am

Completely correct. I play a game called Eve Online, and there are sweatshop workers mining asteriods in that game. Instead of making shoes or sewing clothes, they pace up and down between ten computers and monitor the characters. Thats a lot better than grubbing in a field of rice, and it pays better too!



peebo
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27 Dec 2006, 4:51 pm

"no logo" by naomi klein is a good book which goes into this phenomenon in depth. her site is interesting as well http://www.nologo.org/

also "the new rulers of the world" by john pilger has a couple of chapters on the subject. also a generally very interesting book.


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CeallachSolomon
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08 Jan 2007, 7:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, this has little to do with outsourcing. We actually do them a benefit by offering them jobs in the first place and other countries would clamor for our trade agreements, they agree to trade with us, we aren't using another form of imperialism. You assume that these people would be better off if we didn't trade with them, however, that is not the case one bit as through trade we give them money that they use to fuel economic growth and improve their standards of living which is what is currently fueling Chinese economic growth to some extent. The reason why conditions are so bad is because economic conditions are horrible, workers are willing to work horrible conditions for low pay rather than face the alternatives, after all having child sweatshop labor is significantly better than having child prostitution which is what many countries end up dealing with, as well, the low pay goes farther in those nations as well, which can be seen from charity commercials where your pennies a day can improve the life of some child over there.

The reason why the third world doesn't like America is because of American foreign policy throughout the ages and also our power and ideological differences to a good extent as well. We have intervened in the workings of many foreign nations out of self-interest and because of this we are distrusted. As well, we are the most powerful nation in the world and tend to represent capitalism, so nations that feel repressed and lean socialist will tend to blame us for their misfortune.


Firstly, while you are correct in saying that increasing trade (by trading with America) does take a step to improve the economies of these "Third World" countries, it doesn't improve the living conditions of the common man. For example, after the Chinese government's economy has improved to the point where they are economically stable, do you think men, women and children will stop working in sweatshops? The answer is a very blunt "no", because America still needs those workers and China still wants that trade. This same thing is true in any other country American businesses have sweatshops or low-paying labor.

Oh, and for the record, it's not "throughout the ages". I know what you were getting at, and it was a valid point as to why everyone hates America, but America has only been around for one age: the Modern Age.



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Jan 2007, 9:22 pm

CeallachSolomon wrote:
Firstly, while you are correct in saying that increasing trade (by trading with America) does take a step to improve the economies of these "Third World" countries, it doesn't improve the living conditions of the common man. For example, after the Chinese government's economy has improved to the point where they are economically stable, do you think men, women and children will stop working in sweatshops? The answer is a very blunt "no", because America still needs those workers and China still wants that trade. This same thing is true in any other country American businesses have sweatshops or low-paying labor.
So, these people are better off not having the option of working in a sweatshop? Economists have noted that sweatshop wages, as low as they are, tend to be higher than other options within those nations. Yes, after the Chinese economy has grown to a point where they have accumulated enough of their own capital they will no longer have people working in sweatshops, instead there will be more better options because of the rise of economic standards within that nation. It has nothing to do with America wanting that labor, there is a ton of labor in the world and it has nothing to do with China wanting that trade, products that require skill and capital are more valuable than cheap products from sweatshops and China will seek to produce those like other rich nations do. After all, sweatshops have a low return on labor inputs and no country would want to have laborers working that cheaply.
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Oh, and for the record, it's not "throughout the ages". I know what you were getting at, and it was a valid point as to why everyone hates America, but America has only been around for one age: the Modern Age.
No, I wouldn't consider it just the modern age. I consider the modern age to start at the earliest to be around the 50's because all ages before then exist in a completely different world. Therefore, America in my mind does span at least 2 ages if not more, and I'd argue for more considering the changes that occurred due to the Industrial revolution and other developments.



ascan
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09 Jan 2007, 4:16 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
... Yes, after the Chinese economy has grown to a point where they have accumulated enough of their own capital they will no longer have people working in sweatshops, instead...

Instead, their youngsters will be looking forward to working in Mcdonalds for $7 an hour, once they leave college.

God bless America!



snake321
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09 Jan 2007, 7:28 pm

It's the dominance gene, accept it because barbarism is the way to a more stable earth :roll:



Awesomelyglorious
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09 Jan 2007, 9:20 pm

snake321 wrote:
It's the dominance gene, accept it because barbarism is the way to a more stable earth :roll:

WTF? Dude, if you spout out crap, have it make sense. Trade is the way to a more stable earth though, and if you call self-interest barbarism then yes, barbarism is the way to a more stable earth. Really though, nobody cares what you consider barbaric and what you don't. Actions should not be decided upon your moral preferences on action or aim but rather upon logic and empirical data.



snake321
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10 Jan 2007, 8:47 am

Your right, trade is the way to a more stable earth. But, there's a good way and a bad way of doing it. Some of these overseas companies are outsourcing, and paying these people something like the equivalent of $.08 a day.... I'm not saying every one of them is, but some of them are. And the conditions they work in are very poor.



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Jan 2007, 9:24 am

snake321 wrote:
Your right, trade is the way to a more stable earth. But, there's a good way and a bad way of doing it. Some of these overseas companies are outsourcing, and paying these people something like the equivalent of $.08 a day.... I'm not saying every one of them is, but some of them are. And the conditions they work in are very poor.

The only bad way to do it is to do it in a manner that causes coercion. The fact is that the reason why companies pay workers so little in these other countries is because workers in these other countries really don't expect that much. Often times they choose these sweatshops because other forms of employment in that country are much poorer. If the workers agree to bad conditions though then companies really are not being evil about this as they are simply acting as amoral actors seeking gain.



snake321
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10 Jan 2007, 12:46 pm

Ok, so, China's economy is growing fast, theyr prospering at a level that is rivaling the US, I don't think anyone in China would choose to work slave labor unless the Chinese government is deliberately with-holding work from them. And what reason would they have to do that? It wouldn't benefit China at all.



snake321
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10 Jan 2007, 12:49 pm

I mean, yeah, they'll make more money to throw into their economy. But, lets face it, they need people to work in aiding the community (regular jobs), which are also needed to strengthen their economy. So obviously the slaves aren't doing it by their will.