AS defining a person: Fnord's Quote

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I do not understand the meaning of this quote that Fnord said. If AS is a part of my genetics and my genetics partially defines who I am then doesn't AS partially define me as well as other factors including my experiences?

How is it possible follow Fnord's inspiration without altering the DNA structure of a human being?

How is it possible for one to contradict his identity whatsoever?

Let's say it is possible to follow Fnord's inspiration then what should define a person if not his DNA and experiences? What is the essence of identity?

While I won't dispute that AS is part of our genetics, I don't for a moment accept that genetics partially defines who we are.

Genetics defines how my body works. It defines what cells produce what polypeptides and proteins.

But "who I am," is a far greater statement than, "how my body works." To be sure, my cognition and my memory are grounded in the anatomy of my brain. But anyone who knows a pair of monozygotic twins should be readily able to understand that identical genetics does not produce identical people.

I agree, I see my disabilities like my gender and ethnic background , qualities that are a part of me by virtue of both genetics and culture (mostly genetics IMO) and they do partially define me.

Someone wise once said, "A man is what he makes of himself within the limits of his inherited destiny." Fnord focuses on what the person makes of him or herself; the OP seems to focus on the limits of inherited destiny.

What is Fnord trying to get at? I do not follow.

A lot of NTs seem to do this as well. He seems to focus on affirmations instead of metaphorically showing how to steer the ship properly. To me, this would be more useful then the positive affirmations.

There are those who say I'm the captain of my own ship. I say, "I have the blueprint for the ship. Where's navigation room and the steering wheel?"

I like this quote and it reminds me of Dumbledore's immortal words from Harry Potter "It is our choices , Harry, that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities."

I do believe that how good a person is depends on the choices he makes. Still I think the inherited destiny is an important part of what makes someone who they are. For example I have a high verbal IQ and low performance IQ and everything I enjoy doing and am talented at have to do with language and logic. The way I'll contribute to society in the future (hopefully I can when I finish school) will also be based on these abilities. My inability to do anything that involves a lot of spatial reasoning has also shaped what type of activities I participate in and how I function in the world as have my social ineptitude and rigidity due to having AS. These things have shaped me and do shape me and contribute to who I am for better or worse.

Interesting perception. I think that your way of perceiving the world is more common around here. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people perceive others as determinant of their fate while other perceive themselves as determinant of it. Does this have to do with having an external or internal locus of control?

In terms of genetics, though, I can't answer that. I think that there is much to be learned in the nature versus nurture argument when it comes to autism.

First, if you have a problem with me or with something that I've said, then take it up either with me or with the moderators, and do not post your complaints in a public thread. Thank you.

Second, a condition, disease, or syndrome is not an identity. If you are diagnosed with cancer, then you are not cancer. You are still you, but you have cancer. AS is merely a facet of your existence, but you are not Asperger's Syndrome.

Third, I said, "overcome whatever limitations their particular form of AS/ASD might impose". I did NOT say, "alter their DNA". People with physical handicaps often overcome the limitations of their handicaps and lead normal lives, even though they still have their handicaps.

Finally, you seem to be over-analyzing the statement from false assumptions. If you can't understand what I post, then maybe you're better off ignoring what I post.

That's fine. How do I take the problem up with you? What procedures do I take? Am I allowed to PM you? Do I start a thread and announce for you to come into it? What are my boundaries with you? May I PM you?

By the way, I don't have a problem with you. I have a problem with a certain set of beliefs that you and others have.



What are the components that make me "me"? What gives me my "I'ness?"



I see what you're saying, now that you gave a specific example.

Herein lies the problem. I can only overcome my issues once I have enough information to do that and I am able to connect certain dots.



What are my false assumptions?




Here is my problem with that. Contrary to what you may think, I do want to learn and understand. Like you said, I do have false assumptions. How can I correct my false assumptions and overcome my limitations if I do not even know what they are and where my thoughts are wrong? Will you please tell me what they are and show me where I am wrong? You have the answers. I have none.

The thing is I want to do the right thing that does not go against my conscience. I'm always told to be true to myself. In order to overcome my limitations do I have to pretend to be something I am not? Do I have to go against my own identity to do it. Therein lies one of my major problems I have.




This is what I don't grasp about your beliefs and other people's beliefs. Can society's tenets and beliefs ever be flawed? If there are flaws to a given society why is it considered ignoble to blame a given society for any misfortune that may be fall you? What is the fundamental reasoning that it is ignoble to blame?

http://www.theparableteller.com/2010/08 ... -well.html

Can society ever be wrong? By the logic of not blaming would the Jews be wrong for blaming the Nazis for their misfortune of being placed in concentration camps? I don't follow this extreme internal locus of control America has?

Why should that be so? Let me be clear, I certainly accept that this is your experience, but I don't see why this needs to be so.

If I draw an analogy with medicine, there are many disorders that we cannot cure, and whose origins we do not know. Sometimes all we can do is treat the symptoms of a disorder or create artificial means to replace that which is defective. And sometimes that therapy is enough to allow a patient to overcome the presentations of that particular disorder, even if it has not been cured.

My personal belief is that any person's ability to overcome issues is primarily limited by their inspiration and their perserverence. If your disability prevents you from doing something, you can invent a "work-around" to accomplish a goal a different way; or you can can dedicate hard work towards overcoming the impediment, or both. Even if you don't know why a thing is the way that it is, you may still be able to overcome it, nonetheless. The man without arms cannot paint--unless he uses his left foot. The man without legs cannot run--until he is fitted with prostheses. There are still some insurmountable obstacles out there, but I'm not sure that there are any that cannot be the subject of a work-around.



My short answer to those last questions is, "No." The goal is not to turn yourself into an NT, or to behave like some ideal type. The first step, I suggest, is to identify the real goal. Overcoming your limitations is not a goal; it's a means to an end. And only you can define what that end is. Do you lack friends and want them? Do you lack a romantic partner and want one? Or do you simply want a good job on a good career path? Only you know these things for sure. Once you know what your goals are, then you can better identify what it is about your limitations that is impeding your ability to reach them, and then you can start to develop strategies to work around those limitations, or to mitigate them.



Of course society can be wrong. Society is often wrong. But for all that society exerts strong, conformist pressure, there is no obligation on any member's part to comply with social pressure. You remain and individual, free to pursue and independent way of life within society. It is for that reason that I think it is a mistake to blame society for one's own misfortunes. You can blame society for its errors, but not matters that are, ultimately, within your own control.

Fnord is completely right. I would say the same thing, also he said 'define' not 'partially define', which is a critical distinction very much key to his point.

In fact if I had one piece of advice for anyone here to take it that.

I agree with this to a certain extent and I definitely think AS is a disorder not just a difference. Still, I think disabilities and illnesses vary widely and a chronic illness or disability that you're born with can become part of your identity though....almost like another quality you have : intelligence or lack there of , athletic ability or lack there of. It shapes who you become since you've had it all your life and the disorder or illness and the accommodations you need become a part of how you function in and interact with the world. I agree with the bolded part completely though.

I will present my issue(s) a different way as I do not know if I communicating well. I will use my own analogy. I will use programming as an example. I understand the syntax of programming and the concept of the syntax to learn any programming language I want. I understand OOP as well and the concepts to it as well. I am able to create software application necessary.

For obtaining a job in IT I have bits and pieces of the syntax and program to obtain a job in IT but it is insufficient. I have more data than I had 2 years ago but it is still insufficient. For example, I went to this job seminar which provided me excellent information but I still lack information that I can transform into true data.





My goal is to obtain a job in IT. This is where I have issues. In order for one to establish a career path there are certain things I need to understand that I don't grasp yet. When I try to read some of the stuff out there it is like reading greek. I don't understand the employer's programming code. I am missing this data.

a. What is the difference between a job vs. a career?
b. What is a career path? I don't get this concept.
c. Where is the map for this path?
d. What is the name of each position?
e. Let's say each position has a position number. Each position occupies a certain positional number k out of positions 0 through n. 0 is the bottom and n is the top. I've been told to start at the bottom. How does one identify the name of the job for position 0 and each job higher in rank above the previous? What is the name of all jobs for all positions?
f. What are the procedures to earn advancement for each position. Let's say I'm at position k in a workplace setting. How does one get to position k + 1?
g. Each IT job requires multiple skill sets. Each particular skill requires x amount of years of experience. From this, how does one derive the bottom? Where does one start?






I would have not thought of it in this fashion. This is where I have issues as well. How does one determine what is in one's control or not in one's control unless it is blatantly obvious?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 20 Feb 2013, 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have had to think through this and I do believe in ND and autism rights. I do have certain issues with saying aspergers is a difference. First, everyone has differences to them. Even identical twins have certain differences. Even one has strengths, gifts, weaknesses and drawbacks. Aspergers as by defined by the DSM as a disorder. This does not mean that those of us who has this disorder does not have any gifts which I believe would be a part of Neurodiversity.

All Neurodiversity says is that there are neurological differences between people. Disorders only concentrate on the negative. To be proud of having a disorder does not semantically sit well with me.

I believe that I have good analytical ability which can have a draw back and that is I overthink. If I can overcome the overthinking piece I think I can develop my good analytical ability to excellent. This would be a gift to celebrate.

I thought partially defining was a form of defining. If you partially define then wouldn't you still define even though it is not 100%?

We know very little of our "inherited destiny" Genes do not completely determine our personal choices. That is another way of asserting Free Will.

ruveyn