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Is work tyranny?

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RushKing
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25 Feb 2013, 6:27 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DuoI4bQ07M[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7NF-ycOEE[/youtube]
I don't want to be a cog in the machine. Can we replace work with play? Should we refuse to work?



ruveyn
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25 Feb 2013, 6:42 pm

They who do not work, neither shall they eat -- Paul of Tarsus



Jacoby
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25 Feb 2013, 6:48 pm

Forcing others to work to support you makes you a tyrant. No one is responsible for you but yourself.



Tequila
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25 Feb 2013, 7:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
They who do not work, neither shall they eat -- Paul of Tarsus


Unless they live in São Tomé. In which case, food grows on trees, so you'll be alright, if fairly poor.



RushKing
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25 Feb 2013, 7:39 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Forcing others to work to support you makes you a tyrant.

Suggesting no one should work =/= forcing others to work. My support for others can be voluntary and playful.



RushKing
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25 Feb 2013, 7:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
They who do not work, neither shall they eat -- Paul of Tarsus

The words of an authoritarian.



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25 Feb 2013, 8:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Forcing others to work to support you makes you a tyrant. No one is responsible for you but yourself.

a. Forcing others to work to support you is slavery.
b. Slavery is tyranny.
: : Forcing others to work to support you makes you a tyrant.

RushKing wrote:
Ruveyn wrote:
They who do not work, neither shall they eat -- Paul of Tarsus
The words of an authoritarian.

The fact that Paul wrote these words does not make them any less true.

If you want to eat, you work.

Unless of course, you're incapable of working; in which case, your family, friends, and relatives should take care of you.

That leaves only lazy, good-for-nothing parasites to whine and complain about having to put forth any effort to feed themselves.


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25 Feb 2013, 8:06 pm

I think it's ridiculous how the workplace usually has a military type command structure even if it's a crappy fast food job or something. Also, employers usually view the people they hire in extreme-terms meaning if they're not a completely perfect employee then they're a terrible one in the employer's eyes.

Job interviews are another example of this how you usually have to dress, talk, and act totally perfect during them. :roll:



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25 Feb 2013, 8:13 pm

Yes and no.

Some work can be incredibly liberating and enriching, unfortunately the vast majority is nothing more than a tool of economic endentured servitude.

there are different levels of wage slavery, according to ones utilised skill and relationship with the means of production.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 25 Feb 2013, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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25 Feb 2013, 8:17 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Yes and no.

there are different levels of wage slavery, according to ones utilised skill and relationship with the means of production.


Any employment voluntarily entered into is not slavery. Slavery is involuntary servitude.

ruveyn



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25 Feb 2013, 8:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Yes and no.

there are different levels of wage slavery, according to ones utilised skill and relationship with the means of production.


Any employment voluntarily entered into is not slavery. Slavery is involuntary servitude.

ruveyn


theres different levels of slavery. Slavery entered into under the whipmasters hand or under economic duress still imply an absence of meaningful choice.


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25 Feb 2013, 8:23 pm

"Wage Slave" = Someone who believes that he or she should be paid more for doing less, but who does not have what it takes to successfully compete for a position that will actually pay more for less work (Syn.: "Goldbricker", Sandbagger", "Slacker", "Whiner", et cetera.)

Venger wrote:
I think it's ridiculous how the workplace usually has a military type command structure even if it's a crappy fast food job or something. Also, employers usually view the people they hire in extreme-terms meaning if they're not a completely perfect employee then they're a terrible one in the employer's eyes.

Fast-food places are more regimented than your average R&D department - they have to be. Many fast-food workers (according to my friends at the Rotary) seem to have just barely enough discipline to show up for their scheduled shifts, so it only seems reasonable to be more strictly regimented in a fast-food environment that in an engineering environment. Some engineers show up two or three hours after everyone else, and go home two or three hours late, as well. The programmers' schedules are more erratic - as long as they put in their 40 hours each week, they get paid for 40 hours.

Venger wrote:
Job interviews are another example of this how you usually have to dress, talk, and act totally perfect during them. :roll:

Look at it this way: There are a lot of people who are both able and willing to dress, talk, and act totally perfect during an interview, and many of these people are also perfectly qualified for the job. I interview a lot of applicants. Given the choice between one of these "perfect" people and someone who bumbles, fumbles, mumbles, and stumbles his or her way through an interview while wearing clothes that are inappropriate even for public display, I am going to hire the more "perfect" person.

It's called "Competing for the Job", and if you can't compete, then you may as well just stay home and whine about how "Life is soooooo unfair!"

:roll:


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Last edited by Fnord on 25 Feb 2013, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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25 Feb 2013, 8:25 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Yes and no.

there are different levels of wage slavery, according to ones utilised skill and relationship with the means of production.


Any employment voluntarily entered into is not slavery. Slavery is involuntary servitude.

ruveyn


theres different levels of slavery. Slavery entered into under the whipmasters hand or under economic duress still imply an absence of meaningful choice.


Yes, there two levels. Slavery and not-Slavery. Anything voluntary is not Slavery.

As to meaningful choice: here is such a choice. Earn your living and you eat. Don't earn your living and you either, beg, steal or starve..

ruveyn



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25 Feb 2013, 8:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Earn your living and you eat. Don't earn your living and you either, beg, steal or starve.

^This, FTW


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25 Feb 2013, 8:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Yes, there two levels. Slavery and not-Slavery. Anything voluntary is not Slavery.

The problem with this binary logic is that it assumes there is a level playing field across the social demographics, there isn't. The extent by which employment is voluntary is undermined by inherited poverty and the social bargaining power of locally established companies.
In poorer economies, large companies that outsource are able to take advantage of this absence of choice. That is why they move to poorer countries where the local population are forced to work for them out of desperation.
ruveyn wrote:
As to meaningful choice: here is such a choice. Earn your living and you eat. Don't earn your living and you either, beg, steal or starve..

ruveyn

Thats not a choice, its blackmail.


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thomas81
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25 Feb 2013, 8:32 pm

Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Earn your living and you eat. Don't earn your living and you either, beg, steal or starve.

^This, FTW

no, not ftw.


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