If God is all loving, why does he want to judge me?

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Alki
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05 Apr 2013, 8:53 pm

I am hearing the North Korea thing in the news lately. North Korea wants to strike all the US and that stuff. The argument that God exists is a valid claim, but if people say he is also all loving, why does he want to judge me early on without warning or can't lift a finger to listen to my pleas? Maybe he is a bad or apathetic God who just doesn't care about people's fate on this planet. There's that valid claim that God was also punishing America for being immoral, he's picking on a nation over a few bad apples. Is this the kind of system you want and would you be willing to wage war with God and his kingdom or want him to listen to your fears?



AngelRho
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05 Apr 2013, 11:33 pm

Like it or not, admit it or not, want it or not, etc., the fact is that human beings are linked together by our humanity and what affects one of us affects us all. I believe that we are ALL held accountable for the injustices of the few for as long as we are willing to tolerate it. The sooner we come to terms that we are all part of the brotherhood of mankind and start acting together as one, the sooner God will turn his judgments away from us.

The problem is that we are all too willing to tolerate evil and we're quick to encourage it rather than eliminate it. For that we only have ourselves to blame.

I think the description of God as omni-benevolent is flawed. God is omni-benevolent in the sense that God loves the world and everyone in it despite our fallen nature and desires reconciliation. God is NOT omni-benevolent in the sense that God hates disobedience, for example. Debating whether this means God is omni-benevolent or not boils down to silly word-games. However, I see God's justice as flowing from divine love. In my view, temporal death as part of the human experience is necessary since compelling human beings to live forever in a fallen state would constitute a lack of mercy on God's part. God gives us the gift of life on earth for a relatively short time in order to allow us the opportunity to choose salvation and obedience over rejecting God and favoring rebellion. Those who have had sufficient time and choose reconciliation must endure earthly death in order to become perfect by shedding their human nature. Even Hell (Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, whatever) is a result of God's love and mercy--those who reject God in the living years would never accept God in the hereafter. Heaven would just be another Hell for those people. If a person adamantly does not want God, he gets "no God" and is eternally separated from the divine. It's not JUST about rewarding the faithful and punishing the faithless.

As far as God's judgment on us goes, I don't think we're quite there yet. You mentioned N. Korea. Look, N. Korea has been all bark/no bite for decades now. This kind of crap comes up every two to three years or so, and recent developments shouldn't come as any surprise. If anyone "deserves" punishment more than most, it's probably N. Korea and not the USA and our allies. Do I think we risk the wrath of God if we continue the direction we're going? You bet! But the important thing to note is that God is still patient just as he was with the ancient Israelites. Read Kings and Chronicles and see how many kings were evil in the sight of the Lord in contrast to those who did what was good "just as his ancestor David did." As bad as things got, God held off until the behavior of the Israelites was long past redeemable. Those who kept the faith faced the same consequences as those who worshiped other gods and engaged in perverse practices--not because God turned his back on those who love him, but because they lived too close together with those who turned their backs to God. If you're living in a country in which you are afraid that you'll be negatively impacted by God's wrath, just start packing your bags and get out while you can. The dispossessed Canaanites even had that much latitude in deciding how to meet their fate. The problem is never with those who can swallow their pride and read the writing on the wall. It's with those too stubborn to admit their sinful actions and do something to correct their behavior. The good news is that with as many believers as there are in this country, I suspect God's full judgment on us is a long way in the making and it's doubtful that I or my children will ever have to worry about it. I do worry about what the world will be like for my grandchildren. And I highly doubt that N. Korea throwing nukes at us will be how it happens. I don't think any nations want to go there, and I seriously doubt that a charred crater where Pyonyang used to be resulting from a retaliatory nuke strike is something the N. Korean people and their leaders really hold in the best interests of their nation.



MCalavera
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06 Apr 2013, 6:35 am

The above is just apologetic drivel and doesn't really consider the most reasonable explanation which is that God, if he exists, is not too concerned with what we do.

God hasn't made his existence clear, and he certainly hasn't made it clear to us what he really likes/dislikes.



ArrantPariah
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06 Apr 2013, 7:22 am

Alki wrote:
The argument that God exists is a valid claim, but if people say he is also all loving, why does he want to judge me early on without warning or can't lift a finger to listen to my pleas?


It gives Yahweh something to do.



ArrantPariah
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06 Apr 2013, 7:31 am

AngelRho wrote:
I think the description of God as omni-benevolent is flawed.


You're going to be in trouble, Buster! :shameonyou:

Holy Spirit knows what you just typed. You had better pray to Jesus right now, before God the Father gets wind of this. Otherwise, watch out for missiles, floods, epidemics, earthquakes and locusts.



jagatai
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06 Apr 2013, 10:34 am

Alki wrote:
I am hearing the North Korea thing in the news lately. North Korea wants to strike all the US and that stuff. The argument that God exists is a valid claim, but if people say he is also all loving, why does he want to judge me early on without warning or can't lift a finger to listen to my pleas? Maybe he is a bad or apathetic God who just doesn't care about people's fate on this planet. There's that valid claim that God was also punishing America for being immoral, he's picking on a nation over a few bad apples. Is this the kind of system you want and would you be willing to wage war with God and his kingdom or want him to listen to your fears?


If I understand what you are claiming here, you seem to feel that any bad thing that happens to you or to the country is a direct result of the judgement of a god. Why would you think bad things (or good things for that matter) were the direct result of the attitudes of a god? Couldn't they be simply the result of the actions of people or the forces of nature? Why must events be the result of an ever watchful and judging god?

People often see horrible things happening to innocent people and question why a god would bring such suffering on them. Others construct elaborate justifications for these events as the actions of a loving god. Yet if we look at events without the prejudice that things occur as a judgement on humans, the good and bad things that happen in the world are no where near as difficult to explain. The good and bad things that happen appear to be the result of an uncaring universe rather than any kind of consistent reflection on human actions.

I can't provide an answer why a god would want to judge you because because I can't twist logic into the grotesque knots that are necessary to justify those events as the work of an intelectually consistent entity. Perhaps the better question is "why do people assume certain events are the work of a god when the simpler and more logical explanation is that these events are caused by human actions and forces of nature?"


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06 Apr 2013, 11:40 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
You're going to be in trouble, Buster! :shameonyou:

Why? He hasn't called you a troll, yet.


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ArrantPariah
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06 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
You're going to be in trouble, Buster! :shameonyou:

Why? He hasn't called you a troll, yet.


:shameonyou:



ArrantPariah
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06 Apr 2013, 2:26 pm

The mere suggestion that Yahweh is anything short of an all-benevolent creature is a highly damnable offense. :shameonyou:



blunnet
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06 Apr 2013, 4:16 pm

Alki wrote:
If God is all loving, why does he want to judge me?

well, all I know is that N. Korea is all loving and it wants to punish us for our sins, being a difficult decision to make, although because of its kindness, Hell will not be an eternal damnation.



Nambo
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06 Apr 2013, 5:31 pm

In reply to the line of the thread title, God is so Loving that he gave a get out clause for everybody that wants it and who acknowledge that without it, they might not fare to well come judgement day, namely, Romans Chapter 8 verse 1

"So now those who belong to Christ Jesus will not be judged."

As fort the body of your question, there is a common misconception that God rules the world whereas the Bible tells us that the Devil is the one that rules the wold, this is why its such a wicked place with wars and children dying, its also why we are to pray for Gods Kingdom to come, the reason being, that its not actually here yet, when it is here, the world we be a nice place re Revelation 21

Hense, anything that happens on Earth at the moment, isn't really of Gods doing.



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06 Apr 2013, 5:40 pm

God loves you so much that He even prepared a place for you to burn and suffer without respite for all eternity if His love goes unrequited. Isn't that sweet of Him?


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dionysian
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06 Apr 2013, 5:49 pm

There is no god.


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Nambo
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06 Apr 2013, 6:53 pm

Vigilans wrote:
God loves you so much that He even prepared a place for you to burn and suffer without respite for all eternity if His love goes unrequited. Isn't that sweet of Him?


Actually the word Hell just meant the grave, its meaning has changed like the word gay for instance.

God said, "dust you are, and to dust you will return"

The modern notion of Hell being a place where people are tortured for ever is an invention of man designed to frighten folk into submitting to religions of man.



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06 Apr 2013, 6:59 pm

'tis better to be beneath the sod
when fools pray to an absent God.



Alki
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06 Apr 2013, 8:26 pm

Quote:
Why would you think bad things (or good things for that matter) were the direct result of the attitudes of a god?

It's more comforting to believe this was the result of man, but I have been instilled with such belief. Did I drift away from it a bit? Yes I did. But is 'he' still there? I believe so.