What do you think about resource-based economy

Page 1 of 1 [ 9 posts ] 

pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,903
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

14 Apr 2013, 6:33 am

Today i watched Zeitgeist: The movie, they was talking about resource based-economy, i start researching on Internet and come across this :D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui6g23ygov8[/youtube]

It was great episode of TNG, i started thinking about it and start wondering "whether people living in resource-based economy will not be too lazy, if all they need gets the golden plates"



Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

14 Apr 2013, 10:29 am

There'll still be work that needs doing. We're at the point already where we could provide for everyones needs as well as have a massive abundance of resources, with everyone needing to do maybe less than a dozen hours of work each week.

I don't think we'll get to the point where people don't have to do anything to provide for themselves, even if it's only a few hours of work. As Saint Paul said, if they don't work they don't eat - if you don't bother doing anything useful, I'm not going to repair your food machine for you. I don't think we'll have a situation where people can just sit back in the house that someone else has provided for them, eating and drinking out of the replicator, which can also provide them with all the electronics, clothing etc they need...

A self-making bed is nice, but it really doesn't take much work to do it by hand.

I don't think we'll manage it if people keep trying to accumulate stuff, though, since that's what's stopping us at the moment...



pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,903
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

14 Apr 2013, 10:37 am

Magneto wrote:
There'll still be work that needs doing. We're at the point already where we could provide for everyones needs as well as have a massive abundance of resources, with everyone needing to do maybe less than a dozen hours of work each week.

I don't think we'll get to the point where people don't have to do anything to provide for themselves, even if it's only a few hours of work. As Saint Paul said, if they don't work they don't eat - if you don't bother doing anything useful, I'm not going to repair your food machine for you. I don't think we'll have a situation where people can just sit back in the house that someone else has provided for them, eating and drinking out of the replicator, which can also provide them with all the electronics, clothing etc they need...

A self-making bed is nice, but it really doesn't take much work to do it by hand.

I don't think we'll manage it if people keep trying to accumulate stuff, though, since that's what's stopping us at the moment...


Thanks, I'm also big fan of Star Trek, i read article in one newspaper calling Star Trek a Socialist Utopia, author pointing that if we had all things for free, people will be to lazy to reach star,



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

14 Apr 2013, 10:57 am

All economies are resource based. Even bad economies.



RushKing
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,340
Location: Minnesota, United States

14 Apr 2013, 12:51 pm

Magneto wrote:
There'll still be work that needs doing. We're at the point already where we could provide for everyones needs as well as have a massive abundance of resources, with everyone needing to do maybe less than a dozen hours of work each week.

I don't think we'll get to the point where people don't have to do anything to provide for themselves, even if it's only a few hours of work. As Saint Paul said, if they don't work they don't eat - if you don't bother doing anything useful, I'm not going to repair your food machine for you. I don't think we'll have a situation where people can just sit back in the house that someone else has provided for them, eating and drinking out of the replicator, which can also provide them with all the electronics, clothing etc they need...

A self-making bed is nice, but it really doesn't take much work to do it by hand.

I don't think we'll manage it if people keep trying to accumulate stuff, though, since that's what's stopping us at the moment...

You seem to believe people can't help each other out of free will, but have to be coerced economically to do so. I think consumerism is a result of the price system. I don't see people hauling barrels over to drinking fountains to collect as much water as possible.

Although i'm in support of many of the ideas of the zeitgeist movement, I'm not in favor of zeitgeist because they like the Marxists miss the largest piece of the puzzle, which is hierarchy/centralized authority. Anarchism encompasses much more. Bureaucratic management classes can be just as exploitative as the capitalists. Power corrupts



Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

14 Apr 2013, 1:40 pm

You seem to have not actually read my post properly. I don't think people need to be coerced to help others, I just think they won't want to help someone who refuses to do any work themselves. Social ostracism is a very effective method to avoid freeloaders. If someone sits at home all day and just consumes the content that other people provide, not producing anything that people to deem to be of worth, they're quite likely to find that no-one is inclined to fix their 3D printer for them, or their computer, or their oven. Obviously, they could learn to fix it themselves, but that just means that they'll be doing work but it will merely be work that needs to be done for themselves - tending their kitchen garden, fixing their own home etc. But it won't be that they'll have no work to do.

Obviously, though, that will leave everyone with a massive load of free time. With massive amounts of cheap computing power available, high-definition cameras everywhere and everyone having lots and lots of free time, expect to see free movies which rival those coming from Hollywood today. Now that the bottleneck of finding a publisher has gone, we're already seeing a significant expansion in stories that are available. Sure, 90% of these will be crap, but with everyone able to make it, there'll be a lot of quality content out there, and the better the quality, the more wuffie it's creator gets.

If there's no need to make money, I don't see any point charging for it, though I don't expect money to disappear any time soon - people will still want to eat out, and I don't expect many waiters will want to wait on people for free. I do think money will become less important though, and probably won't be backed by anything (with everything being so cheap, what *can* you back it with?). Expect more community currencies being in existence; perhaps the Talossan currency will become one that is used quite often.

As for space programs, which is something that I feel we ought to use our abundance of resources for... well, there'll be a lot of skilled engineers with a lot of free time, plus a lot more enthusiastic amateurs with a lot of free time. A lot then would depend on how easy it is to get the raw materials and the machinery to make what's needed, but I don't think that will be a showstopper - look at what teams like Armadillo Aerospace or Copenhagen Suborbital are achieving on quite low budgets.



Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

14 Apr 2013, 2:55 pm

I don't think people will get lazy. It is human nature to be active and seeking out new things.

If we didn't have to work so hard to provide for ourselves then we would all be free to achieve self actualization. There would be people who make music for others, write stories for others, care for others etc. because of their love for doing it and not because they want something in return.



8bitKnight
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 120
Location: Another Planet

14 Apr 2013, 3:27 pm

I have read about Jacque Fresco and the Venus Project and I think he is a genius but the powers that be will never let it happen.


_________________
Fellow aspie, trying to understand the world I live in.
Check out some of my 8bit / Chiptune music -> http://www.8bitKnight.com


pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,903
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

14 Apr 2013, 4:06 pm

8bitKnight wrote:
I have read about Jacque Fresco and the Venus Project and I think he is a genius but the powers that be will never let it happen.



I think that his ideas are dangerous, but also very beautiful, I would like to live in such a world, which he described in the movie Zeitgeist.

Karl Marx also had a vision of a new better world. and so what we had equal and more equal, to the atheistic materialism that man can be equal to god, to master nature, to decide who can live and who is not, it's outerous and ridiculous