The first EVER anti-domestic violence ad in Saudi Arabia

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Good stuff. I am pleased to see this tiny little bit of progress that is being made. The tide is turning - frightfully slow - but it is turning.

The Saudis deserve better than what Islamic literalism, their insane, brutal and corrupt leadership, the rulings of their 'Islamic scholars' and their henchmen can ever give them. I wish them the best of luck and I praise the courage of the people behind the King Khalid initiative.

What about domestic abuse to the domestic migrant workers?

In some case is not just male on female but female on female, often the wives on domestic servants, perhaps as they are being abused, the are then abusing their servants. It is a kind of psychological transference.

The other side of it is the natives are subsidized, and pay little or nottax due to oil wealth, and have no work ethic, so develop a narcissistic tenancy.

There has been terrible report of Bangladeshi, Philippino, etc accounts of abuse are beyond shocking.

As they are effectively indentured labourers, with no rights. It is slavery, with another name. In some cases, they are not allowed to leave, until they have served they term without permission of their 'sponsor'. They are not citizens, nor do they have a say in anything.


I always wonder what is the attraction to American and European expats to these states (other then money)? I can't image a more stale, heartless place. You couldn't pay me any amount to live there.

They don't even care about their own heritage, a it is just soulless malls an high rises, I'd rather go to the Levant,

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 28 Apr 2013, 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Study the house of the House of Saud. Their mandate is based on an agreement they made with the religious leaders, way back. They cannot go too far with reforms, the unification of the tribes depends on this theistic approval.

Otherwise they are just another waring tribal leader.

Everything you say is right. It's horrific.

The abuse, rape, and torture of foreign workers is frankly unbelievable - and worse, it seems to be seen as almost acceptable and not worthy of concern in Saudi society. Their society seems to have no collective compassion for other people, whether Muslim or non-Muslim. Pakistani and Bengalis get treated just as badly as Filipinos and Sri Lankans.

We all know that if any country in the West treated their foreign workers anywhere nearly as badly as that, they would be an international pariah. But because it's a GCC country, no-one makes a sound about it.

I think the weather may have something to do with it, too but for me, KSA seems like a horrid place to live. You're effectively stuck on compound it seems, apart from when you go shopping. Drinking is illegal, and there is the constant risk of getting caught. I've read that Western teetotallers often become alcoholics whilst there. There seems to be nothing to see or do there. In fact, all the tourist guides seem to make this point pretty clear. If you're not a Muslim, there's nothing there for you.

Hell, it seems that even a lot of Saudis feel the need to get out of the Kingdom every once in a while to relax and have a drink and a shag.

One of the reason why there a westerner that take huge risk to import narcotic is because of the market for it by nationals, they just don't take the wrap. The money has to come from somewhere.

I call




Its amazing how reactionaries can muster their feminist credentials when the 'evil Muslims' are the perpetrators. What about women's equality closer to home? What of unequal pay? The ability of women to secure top-paying jobs? The right of female soldiers to fight in a front-line capacity? The misogynist portrayal of women in the broader western media?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/ ... s-top-jobs

Its all a bare faced lie. The right wing do not want women's equality in the middle east any more than they want it for us. What they want is patriarchy, but of their own westernised style.

Saudi Arabia is NOT an Islamic state regardless of what you have read, been told, or believe. It is a dictatorship run by an absolute monarchy who are friends and puppets of Israel and western political leaders. A political system with a monarchy is not even allowed under Islam! The true purpose of the Saudi monarchy - which was installed by the west following the overthrow of the Khilafah in 1924 - was to PREVENT an Islamic state from being created in the fragments of the Ottoman empire. The so called Saudi scholars are all appointed by the king himself so in effect are his henchmen imposing his authority masked as Islam.

As western governments defend the Saudi monarchy to the hilt and have their own military bases on Saudi land in order to crack down on any dissent then they are complicit in the appalling poor human rights record of Saudi Arabia. Western leaders know what's going on and they are happy for it to continue so long as Saudi Arabia pledges to be a strategic opponent in war against rogue states in the vicinity such as Iran or Iraq in 2003.

Tu quoque fallacy. Also, thanks for actually shielding Islam from criticism yet again without actually dealing with the points raised. I never said that they were "evil Muslims". We, in the West, have only fairly recently started to treat women like human beings ourselves.

People like you who try to deflect domestic violence - any domestic violence - are worthy of contempt.

We do still have remaining problems in the West when it comes to women's rights. I would like to see women being able to serve in full combat roles if they can pass the tests. (By the way, Israel is a world pioneer in empowering women in their army.)

As for unequal pay - I believe that it's largely about individual circumstances and the jobs women choose (and it can and does work in women's favour at times) rather than gender. Older people are actually paid less (and this is wrong), but it's a relic of a different time. The pay gap used to exist, but it is dying out.

Last edited by Tequila on 28 Apr 2013, 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Go on, tell us what Islamists say, just like the Communists did.

"There has never been a true X state."

What a cock, comparing the glass ceiling to women who are not even able to work, except in very exceptional circumstances.

Also no sense of relativism? Equality issues are complex.

What does this actually have to do with the right? These countries are conservative of one sort.

Me personally I try be pragmatic. For instance child labour in some countries, I consider in the short term, what is the actual alternative? What is the lesser evil. Even the charities argue this point.

However here is an issue few could disagree with, an here you are yet again taking issue with criticism for the sake of it.

Lol the Ottomans world famous for not having emperors...

Of course they are fond of scaly shellfish, harems, Russian slaves, and ascension through strangulation of siblings with a bow sting.

In practice their subversion of Islam at least briefly allowed a renaissance, something that salafist revisionist history would never allow, and the ayatollahs are no better.

As Taquilla, says 'true' Islamic states are total mythology, it would never be agreed apon. This is the enduring history.

What we do agree on that we appease these states too much, but I would argue they are as bad as each other.

One thing SA has in in favour, is lack of the blatant and overt neurotic self pity that is so infectious between generations and extending conflict in the region.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 28 Apr 2013, 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My favorite is some half baked group saying "The X (nation) people want/don't want..."

Precisely. They are completely incomparable.

In Saudi Arabia, women are forced to wear a black sack, they are not allowed to drive, they are barely allowed to vote in elections, they must be escorted everywhere by a trusted adult (usually family members), they cannot marry who they want to marry, people who commit blasphemy are imprisoned and beaten, there is no sexual or religious freedom at all. It's illegal to publicly proclaim your religion if you are not Muslim, you run the risk of being arrested even if you have gatherings with fellow Christians - for example - in your own home, and religious rights are non-existent.

In the West, women can wear whatever they want (unless they are in an abusive relationship or have an abusive family), women have full suffrage (as long as they don't have the misfortune of having their vote denied to them by an abusive husband), women can choose where they want to go and who they want to be with, they can marry anyone they like (and can have civil partnerships if that person is a woman), blasphemy is considered nearly part of the national culture (for Christianity anyway - we have some way to go until we can do the same with Islam, because of the constant threats of violence), and there is sexual and religious freedom.



They are so ultra-ultra-ultra conservative, they make our far-right look positively liberal in comparison.



Yup. I notice that he never actually agrees that this criticism is well-placed or has merit, but he'd rather deflect necessary criticism of how women are treated.

The remaining issues that the West has with women's rights do exist, but they are nothing like the crippling dark ages situation in places like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. There are Christian places where women get the very crappy end of the stick too, so don't think that it's a Muslim phenomenon. In fact, I think that women's rights in, say, non-Muslim African and Asian countries and other parts of the world aren't reported on as much as they should be. If there are problems, they must be aired and dealt with, not simply ignored and people persecuted for speaking out, much like what happens in repressive theocracies.

Last edited by Tequila on 28 Apr 2013, 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I should say cock was a typo of crock.

I couldn't possibly comment on what I feel about that.

The bolded and underlined part is certainly true.

KSA has been an incredibly important geographically, politically and economically to western interests in the area, and to control and stability over the area by those interests.
It is one of the many reasons that so many of the neighbouring states hate KSA with a passion.

Realistically, until western interests refuse to do business with, or support such things - I am afraid that not much is going to change.
Right now that is impossible, as much of the current war effort depends on the geopolitical position, control and influence over neighbouring states, and stability of KSA.

Last edited by Kjas on 28 Apr 2013, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.