US,Israeli-backed Rios Montt ruled guilty of genocide

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Should the US and Israel be held accountable for Rios Montt's crimes?
Yes 83%  83%  [ 5 ]
No 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 6

xenon13
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11 May 2013, 10:26 pm

So the ex-Guatemalan dictator Jose Efrain Rios Montt has been found guilty of genocide against the Ixil people the villages of which were systematically destroyed with large percentages of their populations murdered. This was done with the technical support of Israel and the support of Ronald Reagan who openly praised him as did Pat Robertson who said he was "enlightened'. Rios Montt is a Christian fundamentalist and his regime acted on this. Rios promoted Christian fundamentalism and held Sunday sermons.



Rios Montt convicted of genocide



Tequila
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12 May 2013, 3:13 am

Interesting article on the link between Guatemala and Israel: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-an ... inked-arms

It seems though the Israelis have a long-standing relationship with the Guatemalans in other senses too.



xenon13
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13 May 2013, 10:56 am

I omitted to mention that the survivors in the Ixil region were herded into concentration camps designed by the Israelis.



thomas81
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13 May 2013, 11:01 am

Oh Xenon, stop being so anti-semitic.


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Raptor
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13 May 2013, 12:21 pm

I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


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xenon13
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13 May 2013, 4:22 pm

The Model Villages were Israeli-designed concentration camps to which the Ixil and others were sent and they were press ganged into "civil-defence patrols" where they were forced to turn in quotas of 'subversives'. This is where the victims of village destruction ended up and this followed mass executions, all endorsed by Reagan and by the Israelis. Rios Montt dubbed it his "scorched communist plan" and then let it be known that these people in the highlands were refusing to be real Guatemalans and so their culture had to be taken apart in these concentration camps. The scheme is also like what happened in Vietnam, though they called them "strategic hamlets".

Israel runs concentration camps, there's one called Ansar III in the Negev. Ansar I was in Lebanon and Ansar II was in Gaza, and they no longer exist.



xenon13
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18 May 2013, 1:01 am

Of course ten years earlier Carlos Arana Osorio was President of Guatemala and Rios Montt was chief of staff of the military during the State of Siege, when Arana infamously proclaimed "If it is necessary to turn the country into a cemetery in order to pacify it, I will not hesitate to do so." Thousands disappeared under his reign of terror. Arana had before then been an army commander known as the Butcher of Zacapa for his role in slaughtering peasants during a US-guided counterinsurgency in the late 1960s.



Kraichgauer
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18 May 2013, 9:00 pm

Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Raptor
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19 May 2013, 1:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You won't find many liberals that don't desire to see the Palestinians, or for that matter the entire Islamic middle east, march roughshod through Israel.


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Kraichgauer
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19 May 2013, 2:21 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You won't find many liberals that don't desire to see the Palestinians, or for that matter the entire Islamic middle east, march roughshod through Israel.


So says Limbaugh, Beck, and Fox.
There's a huge difference between wanting to see Israel destroyed, and feeling for the plight of the Palestinian people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Raptor
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19 May 2013, 2:25 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You won't find many liberals that don't desire to see the Palestinians, or for that matter the entire Islamic middle east, march roughshod through Israel.


So says Limbaugh, Beck, and Fox.
There's a huge difference between wanting to see Israel destroyed, and feeling for the plight of the Palestinian people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Uh huh, well I'm seeing a lot of "feeling" from the left for the Palestinians and little to none for the Israelis and that includes in THIS forum.


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Kraichgauer
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19 May 2013, 2:38 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You won't find many liberals that don't desire to see the Palestinians, or for that matter the entire Islamic middle east, march roughshod through Israel.


So says Limbaugh, Beck, and Fox.
There's a huge difference between wanting to see Israel destroyed, and feeling for the plight of the Palestinian people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Uh huh, well I'm seeing a lot of "feeling" from the left for the Palestinians and little to none for the Israelis and that includes in THIS forum.


I fancy myself a liberal, but I fail to recall when I've ever taken on a blatant Anti-Israeli stance.
My Dad had been a very Pro-Israeli liberal, taking a very harsh Anti-Arab stance in his lifetime.
My Dad and I are hardly the only such persons, I'm sure.
Now forgive me, but I'm afraid I have to turn in for church in the morning. This Sunday, church is throwing a birthday party for my daughter who just turned eight on Friday.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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19 May 2013, 7:44 am

xenon13 wrote:
So the ex-Guatemalan dictator Jose Efrain Rios Montt has been found guilty of genocide against the Ixil people the villages of which were systematically destroyed with large percentages of their populations murdered. This was done with the technical support of Israel and the support of Ronald Reagan who openly praised him as did Pat Robertson who said he was "enlightened'. Rios Montt is a Christian fundamentalist and his regime acted on this. Rios promoted Christian fundamentalism and held Sunday sermons.



Rios Montt convicted of genocide


But none of the other parties have been convicted of anything. Tell me, sport, is the man who sold cigars to Al Capone a Mafia thug?

ruveyn



xenon13
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19 May 2013, 10:43 am

Romeo Lucas Garcia is dead and Oscar Mehija Victores is very ill and unsuitable for trial. Hector Gramajo suffered death by killer bees. The sitting President of Guatemala has been implicated in Rios Montt's crimes. US Chamber of Commerce personnel admitted to writing up death lists of troublesome employees to be sent to death squads. In fact, they commented that the Rios Montt conviction would be bad for investments because it makes people worry that the murder law might be enforced. The court that convicted Rios Montt is ordering that others implicated also be investigated. This includes Reagan Administration personnel still around such as Eliott Abrams.



Raptor
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19 May 2013, 11:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I didn't have to look very far at all to find why the left has a bee in their collective bonnet over Jose Montt; Ronald Reagan.
It would be a fools errand to even bother to try and find anything about Israeli concentration camps. :roll:
As anti-Semitic and anti-capitalistic as liberals are I find it hard to believe that there could possibly be a Jewish liberal in the world.


Who says all liberals are Anti-Semitic? Who says all conservatives like Jews? Haters include all types.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You won't find many liberals that don't desire to see the Palestinians, or for that matter the entire Islamic middle east, march roughshod through Israel.


So says Limbaugh, Beck, and Fox.
There's a huge difference between wanting to see Israel destroyed, and feeling for the plight of the Palestinian people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Uh huh, well I'm seeing a lot of "feeling" from the left for the Palestinians and little to none for the Israelis and that includes in THIS forum.


I fancy myself a liberal, but I fail to recall when I've ever taken on a blatant Anti-Israeli stance.
My Dad had been a very Pro-Israeli liberal, taking a very harsh Anti-Arab stance in his lifetime.
My Dad and I are hardly the only such persons, I'm sure.
Now forgive me, but I'm afraid I have to turn in for church in the morning. This Sunday, church is throwing a birthday party for my daughter who just turned eight on Friday.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I didn't specify anyone but I know that you know that I know anti-Israel sentiments from the left are quite common here.
BTW, Happy Birthday to your daughter.


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ruveyn
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19 May 2013, 2:39 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Romeo Lucas Garcia is dead and Oscar Mehija Victores is very ill and unsuitable for trial. Hector Gramajo suffered death by killer bees. The sitting President of Guatemala has been implicated in Rios Montt's crimes. US Chamber of Commerce personnel admitted to writing up death lists of troublesome employees to be sent to death squads. In fact, they commented that the Rios Montt conviction would be bad for investments because it makes people worry that the murder law might be enforced. The court that convicted Rios Montt is ordering that others implicated also be investigated. This includes Reagan Administration personnel still around such as Eliott Abrams.


Has Elliot Abrams ever been indicted for a crime? If so, when where and what was the charge.

ruveyn