Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Greeny
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 28

07 Aug 2013, 5:08 pm

I am an American, and also a conservative. Why do I sense that US conservatism is dumb compared to other countries conservatives. Does this even make sense from a US perspective? I think conservatives here will be better off if they take hints from conservatives in Canada, UK, Australia etc.



Touretter
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 405

07 Aug 2013, 10:51 pm

Greeny wrote:
I am an American, and also a conservative. Why do I sense that US conservatism is dumb compared to other countries conservatives. Does this even make sense from a US perspective? I think conservatives here will be better off if they take hints from conservatives in Canada, UK, Australia etc.
This will probally open a can of worms, so to metaphoricly speak. :) Though my opinion is certainly a generalization, I feel that the conservative right, in the U.S.A., tends to be charecterised by a politicized religious faith. Sort of like a professed Christian equivalent to the Muslim Brotherhood, a great number of them support Dominionism, and are driven by dogma, and faith, rather than so much by reason, and facts. Also they might try to apply presuppositional apologetics to the field of politics. This have been my personal observation, and experience, in dealing with them overall. Now there are a number of more so centrist conservatives whom I've found myself at least part ways agreeing with, such as namely David Brooks. But many self described conservatives are more so simply reactionary opponents of social reform. And they do not devise well thought out arguements in favor of their positions. So, as a consequence, social liberals, whom are their chiefest political rivals, come accross as being intellectually superior.



yelekam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 591

08 Aug 2013, 12:01 am

I am an Emparialist, which is the name for the political philosophy of Diyinic Moralist Intellectuals. Though I wish the conservatives would recognize the worth of an alliance with our two political ideologies and work for the betterment of the nation, for some reason they keep moving away from that possibility.

As to the matter of your question; I think that here are a number of things which effect this perception.

One factor is the tactics which American conservatives employ. American conservatives tend to spend to much time attacking their liberal opponents head on, and not enough time building themselves up and promoting their views. There are groups which they do not do enough promoting to. Their are a lot of religious people in the black community and lot of people who are looking to find honest ways to make money, and if conservatives took greater effort to tell them how traditional values and economic freedom would benefit them. Their are young people who aren't set in their views yet and who it would be easier to change their minds; the liberals are constantly using the education system, the media, and the entertainment industry to promote their views to them, conservatives should be working harder to promote their views to the young, the young are indeed the future of the country. They should also work harder to promote their views to women the Latinos, the poor, and the working class. There is a reason why Lincoln, the first republican president was so successful in his efforts, he and his political allies were tirelessly promoting their views and working to show people why they were good for them.

Then there is those that the conservatives have chosen to work with. For some reason American conservatives have aligned themselves politically with the libertarians. Which is like a chicken working with a fox to fight against the farmer. While the chicken is fighting the farmer the fox is eating the other chickens behind his back. The libertarians are the same as liberals in the part that makes both ideologies harmful, they are permissivist, they oppose moral and rational restrictions on behavior and thus trample on the right of people to lead a moral life. The conservatives would be better of they dumped the libertarians, and formed an alliance with Emparialists, moderates, and the more moderate liberals, to fight against the permissivist radical secular progressives and libertarians.

Then there is the matter of the general culture, the conservatives need to do more of the cultural promoting of things in culture that carry in them the values the want in politics. Politics is the formalization of the matters of the state, the state is the concentrated power of the society, the society is the product of the culture, culture is sentiment refined by the intellect into a formal system, and sentiment comes from the hearts and minds of mans, which are influenced by experience, upbringing, philosophy, education, and other processes of mental thought and reflection of experience. Values promoted on the philosophical and cultural level transmit into the political level. If your pro-life, teach people to love their children and base relationships in platonic love. If you want to promote entrepreneurship, buy some lemonade from the kid on your street with a lemonade stand. If you want good public education, find the young people who love learning, teach them the principals of good education and the rule of right, and encourage them to become teachers. If you want people to be more respecting of religion teach mathematics and Makeleyen ethics. If you want to stop drug addiction call the cops on the drug dealer on the street corner and when you hear any moron promoting drugs or the idiotic idea of legalizing them, tell them the truth that drug use is immoral and very much harmful and to either shut up or stop talking nonsense around others. If you want to stop the expansion of the welfare state be charitable and when you get the opportunity teach people about the value of hard work and give them advise on how to increase their economic independence.

If the conservatives would take a more moralist intellectual approach, do more cultural contribution, do more promoting of their values to people, aligned themselves with the right people, and went against those who pose the real threats, then conservatives would probably do much better in America.



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

08 Aug 2013, 12:53 pm

The republican party needs to appeal more to the the commoner and actually be sincere about it. That way they'd have the democrats beat.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


Greeny
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 28

08 Aug 2013, 1:12 pm

What does Raptor's suggestion entail?



ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 120
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

08 Aug 2013, 2:40 pm

Greeny wrote:
What does Raptor's suggestion entail?


Dumbing themselves down even further, to unprecedented levels of stupidity.



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

08 Aug 2013, 3:02 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Greeny wrote:
What does Raptor's suggestion entail?


Dumbing themselves down even further, to unprecedented levels of stupidity.


No, we don't want to emulate liberals.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,522
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

08 Aug 2013, 3:38 pm

The conservative movement has been co-opted by international corporations. For example, the Tea Party movement was a response to Wall Street and how it destroyed the lives of the middle class. Unfortunately, the Koch bros turned it into a movement that made it into a fanatical paradigm in favour of international corporations.
They fooled the sheeple into believing that attacking the puppet (government ) = attacking the puppeteer (Wall Street).
Amazingly, Reagan would be too liberal today to get the nomination for president!! !


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,522
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

08 Aug 2013, 3:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
The republican party needs to appeal more to the the commoner and actually be sincere about it. That way they'd have the democrats beat.

And how can they do that? When the elite of the Republican party are puppets of international corporations?


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,522
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

08 Aug 2013, 3:52 pm

Dems=good cop. Repubs=bad cop. Both are against us. * But considering that those are my only options, I will continue to vote for good cop (the lesser of two evils).
* They both represent the interests of international corporations and not us.


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

08 Aug 2013, 4:33 pm

The republican party is the seat of anti-intellectual forces in the US. Most are biblical creationists. A majority doubt global warming. They live in a stew of whispered conspiracies that suggest that "elites" are out to destroy their values and there are Republican figures in the media and politics who have actually denigrated getting an education.

Not all Republicans are like that but enough of them to make the stereotype stick.



wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,522
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

08 Aug 2013, 4:39 pm

The irony is that those they claim are elites (community college professors) are less elite than those that control the economy ( Wall Street gamblers and hedge fund managers),that they blindly follow. (and who are definitely not Christian).


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

08 Aug 2013, 5:43 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The republican party needs to appeal more to the the commoner and actually be sincere about it. That way they'd have the democrats beat.

And how can they do that? When the elite of the Republican party are puppets of international corporations?


:roll:
I didnt say the GOP had to abandon the corporations, obviously they won't.
BUT, it would behoove them to capture more votes by appealing to a wider electorate and taking more voters from the democrats.
That's how elected offices are filled (or kept).


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 120
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

08 Aug 2013, 5:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Greeny wrote:
What does Raptor's suggestion entail?


Dumbing themselves down even further, to unprecedented levels of stupidity.


No, we don't want to emulate liberals.


Of course not. Dumbing it down is the Conservative tactic.



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

08 Aug 2013, 8:41 pm

Only when you change the definition of dumb.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

10 Aug 2013, 10:51 am

Greeny wrote:
I am an American, and also a conservative. Why do I sense that US conservatism is dumb compared to other countries conservatives. Does this even make sense from a US perspective? I think conservatives here will be better off if they take hints from conservatives in Canada, UK, Australia etc.

I don't think "conservatism" is dumb by comparison...it's just that we don't really have as much of a political voice as we used to a decade ago. The Republican party has been that voice up until recently, and too many of our elected officials are trying to move towards the middle to appease liberals and get more votes.

Liberals in this country figured out before Republicans how short our attention span is. Popular opinion is GENERALLY conservative and will tend to swing back in our favor, especially once they are reminded of failed liberal policies.

Personally, I'd like to see more vocal libertarians start winning elections, not because I agree with them on moral issues, but because a prevalence of libertarian ideals influencing policy-making would be just what Republicans need to wake up and stick to their conservative roots.

The Republicans are a lot of things--some good, and some not. But they are certainly not conservative. Speaking as an American conservative, I'm truly disappointed in my party.