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Ann2011
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21 Oct 2013, 1:08 pm

Fnord
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21 Oct 2013, 1:45 pm

What We Know So Far:

Shooting at Sparks Middle School in Reno, Nevada.

Two people were killed and two were injured.

Of the two killed, one was a staff member at the school, and the other appears to be a student.

Two students were injured. One underwent surgery, and the other is doing well.

Sparks Middle School, outside Reno, remains an active crime scene.

Students are being taken to a nearby high school to meet their parents.

School was canceled for the day at Sparks Middle School and nearby Agnes Risley Elementary.

Source: CNN Website Article

UPDATE

CNN wrote:
A staff member was killed and two students were injured after a student opened fire at a Nevada middle school on Monday, police said.

The "student/suspect" in the case was also killed, Washoe County School District Police Chief Mike Mieras said.

Authorities said it was too soon to say whether the suspected shooter was killed by a self-inflicted wound or a law enforcement shot.



crackedpleasures
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21 Oct 2013, 2:41 pm

I may be harsh but it is pointless to see massive mourning about this, the government expressing their deep condolences, ... when the law regarding gun possession isn't changed very soon. People can mourn as much as they want, Obama can express his condolences and judge pointless violence a thousand times, but the only way to avoid dramas like this is to change the gun posession laws. As long as this is not changed, new shootings like this will remain a regular occurance. Each time politicians condemn violence and out their condolences, but when is someone actually going to stand up against the weapon lobby and outlaw gun posession (with exception of security staff, police and military -- but outlawing any gun posession for the average citizen)

The argument that with a gun you can better protect yourself is a pointless one: by the time you would think of self defense the shooter will already long have made several victims. Outlawing private arms posession is the only way to prevent new dramas such as this occuring.


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Fnord
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21 Oct 2013, 2:41 pm

Thank you for sharing.



Willard
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21 Oct 2013, 3:52 pm

crackedpleasures wrote:
Outlawing private arms posession is the only way to prevent new dramas such as this occuring.


You live where you want and I'll live where I have the right to defend myself as I see fit.

Human beings are always going to kill each other. Take away the guns, they'll make bombs. Defend yourself with a harsh facial expression if that makes you feel safe.



crackedpleasures
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21 Oct 2013, 4:19 pm

Willard wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
Outlawing private arms posession is the only way to prevent new dramas such as this occuring.


You live where you want and I'll live where I have the right to defend myself as I see fit.

Human beings are always going to kill each other. Take away the guns, they'll make bombs. Defend yourself with a harsh facial expression if that makes you feel safe.


Weapons kill, they don't prevent killing. By the time you grab your gun for "self defense" the shooter has long killed multiple people, it's always the shooter that releases the first bullets. Also, your bomb argument doesn't make any sense. It's a lot harder to walk around with a bomb than to carry a gun in a place where it's legalised. Creating a bomb and using it without being blown up yourself is also a lot harder than buying some bullets and pulling the trigger (which even an idiot can do as it doesn't require a lot of knowledge)

And human beings may always commit murders, but that doesn't mean we should just let it happen and turn the other way, or encourage them to do it (which you indirectly do if you do not ban gun posession)

Also, USA has the largest inmate population per capita in the world and a lot of jails are in such bad state it would even embarrass a third world country. The crime statistics of USA are a disaster compared with those of other industrialised countries (even countries where life in prison is inexisting such as Norway and Finland are doing way better... or to make a more serious comparison with a very crowded and highly populated nation: Japan, hardly any crimes at all). So your gun posession isn't helping a lot to avoid disasters from happening, otherwise explain how you manage to have nearly 1% of US citizens incarnated in prisons and one of the highest crime rates in the world?

Leave guns to those who are supposed to handle them and protect people: police, professional security firms, and the military. In any other hands, a gun only leads to innocent victims (the idea of self defense is nice in theory but since you will only defend yourself if attacked first, there's victims already long before that self defense reflex would work)

In many ways, the ideas of total freedom is ruining your own nation: freedom does NOT equal giving guns to those who cannot handle it, it is NOT equal to leave poor people uneducated and without healthcare, it is NOT equal to being able to vent venomous xenophobic propaganda, it is NOT equal to giving all power to CEO's and multinationals. Many so called authoritarian states are lot safer places to be than the US, without giving up a lot of freedoms. Freedom is one thing, but it's the US that is bankrupt and coping with extreme crime statistics. Nice price to pay for freedom of gun posession and free markets...

But yes, like you say, to each his own... I'm happy to be on the European side of the pond and with a socialist prime minister. We're doing quite well while the US is bankrupt (it is, making the debt maximum allowed a bit higher is just hiding the fact you need to change your own rules to not be bankrupt on paper. In reality, the US is a sinking ship)


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Fnord
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21 Oct 2013, 6:45 pm

The kid who killed the teacher was apparently 'unstable' in some way - he killed himself, as well as another.

The kid did not use an assault rifle, shotgun or automatic weapon - he used a handgun.

The kid did not own the gun - he stole the gun from his father.

The kid (apparently) had no previous criminal record - he was only 13.

It's one thing to deny the right to own a firearm to minors, felons, abusers and sex offenders. It's another to deny the right to own a firearm to anyone else. It is quite another thing entirely to deny the right to own a handgun to someone because someone else might use it to commit a crime.

No one else is to blame except the kid. Anyone determined to kill someone else will find some means to do it. Anyone determined to use a handgun to kill someone else will find the means to get one.


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Ann2011
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21 Oct 2013, 6:47 pm

The availability does lead to a shorter time for impulse control.



AnonymousAnonymous
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21 Oct 2013, 6:51 pm

Let's keep our fingers crossed that this kid didn't have Aspergers.


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Aspiegaming
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21 Oct 2013, 10:13 pm

How are people snapping like this almost every other week?


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21 Oct 2013, 10:19 pm

How does this keep happening? They look normal then suddenly "it"* breaks loose.

*Whatever degrades one's own mental stability.


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Mike1
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22 Oct 2013, 9:49 am

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
Let's keep our fingers crossed that this kid didn't have Aspergers.

Whether he does or not, I'm sure this will get blamed on people with Asperger's to some extent. People don't know how to deal with these types of situations without having a scapegoat That's how they make the best of these situations. It gives them the opportunity to let out their inner a**hole. Then they go stress out some other decent person to the point that that person decides that they're tired of being butt-f***ed by society, and they go kill some people too. Which, in return, gives people even more opportunities to let out their inner a**hole, just like they wanted. It's a harsh cycle, but it's necessary to help satiate the human desire to be an a**hole.



crackedpleasures
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22 Oct 2013, 12:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
The kid who killed the teacher was apparently 'unstable' in some way - he killed himself, as well as another.

The kid did not use an assault rifle, shotgun or automatic weapon - he used a handgun.

The kid did not own the gun - he stole the gun from his father.

The kid (apparently) had no previous criminal record - he was only 13.

It's one thing to deny the right to own a firearm to minors, felons, abusers and sex offenders. It's another to deny the right to own a firearm to anyone else. It is quite another thing entirely to deny the right to own a handgun to someone because someone else might use it to commit a crime.

No one else is to blame except the kid. Anyone determined to kill someone else will find some means to do it. Anyone determined to use a handgun to kill someone else will find the means to get one.


I don't mind if he used a rifle, a hand gun, ... it is and remains something people not working in security business should not be able to posess. And even if it was his father's, doesn't change anything: abolish gun posession and the father could also not have owned a gun to be stolen by his son.

A firearm is created to kill or at least hurt people. It doesn't belong in the hands of people who are not working for security firms, military or police. No matter what type of gun, if any citizen can have it it will only lead to many more shootings and bloodbaths. But politicians will be happy the weapon lobby is doing well, pretending to mourn over a shooting on TV is easy but if anyone really had guts, he'd abolish the law allowing gun posession. You can say the abuse of one person should not take away the right of anyone else to posess a gun ; why would we want to give people that right anyway? Why not grant rights to own a bomb too, under the banner of maximum freedoms?

The US' obsession with "freedom" and small government involvement is causing your own downfall. Your country is bankrupt and that's no surprise because free markets and capitalism do NOT work. Your country has the highest crime rates worldwide, which is no surprise if any random person has access to guns. You guys in the US are paying a very high price for your so called "freedoms". The American Dream is dead, and the country itself comatose, that's the reality. And that downfall has been mostly caused by own internal decisions and lawmaking.


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"Od lo avda tikvateinu" (excerpt from the Israeli hymn)


pezar
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22 Oct 2013, 4:44 pm

Uh, no we don't have free markets and capitalism in the US. We have something more like mafia rule, where the guys with the gold make up the rules as they go along. There is an oligarchy here, if you're born to the right parents you have opportunity, if you're not you go die.

As for what you've got in Europe, many countries that have adopted "democratic socialism" are stagnant economically and culturally. Many countries over there have such low birthrates that the native ethnic group is going extinct. Muslims are taking over in many places. You have legislated salaries and benefits to a point where hiring a person means the business has to pay them for life. Such a system is unworkable over the long run, meaning decades. Americans know, because we tried it, and it sank US Steel, General Motors, and many others. Japan also tried it, and it blew up in their faces eventually.

Americans are willing to have rampages by random maniacs every so often in exchange for a vibrant culture and a loose economy. Europeans don't have headline grabbing crimes, but they have something worse-stagnation, decline, and ultimately extinction as the Muslims who couldn't take the place over by conquest did so through immigration. Sweden welcomes Syrian refugees in such numbers that doing it over and over eventually means there will be few ethnic Swedes eventually, with Sweden being a country of Arabs. France already is.

Oh, and how do you explain the school rampages in China, with people using swords to hack kids to death? It's real.