The Eucharist, Transubstantiation, Fractals and the Trinity

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Mindsigh
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24 Oct 2013, 4:04 pm

I don't know enough about math to articulate what I'm thinking of, but I wonder if there is a metaphysical connection somehow.


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auntblabby
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24 Oct 2013, 8:00 pm

Hmmmmm..... :chin: i wonder if math-like things such as fractals are a way for mere mortals to understand the mind of the creator?



naturalplastic
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24 Oct 2013, 8:12 pm

"Mathematics is the alphabet by which God has written the Universe."



Galileo



Last edited by naturalplastic on 25 Oct 2013, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

AspE
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24 Oct 2013, 8:41 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Hmmmmm..... :chin: i wonder if math-like things such as fractals are a way for mere mortals to understand the mind of the creator?

Fractals are a mathematical description of how things are made in nature, the only creator.



auntblabby
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24 Oct 2013, 8:43 pm

but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?



Mindsigh
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25 Oct 2013, 8:08 am

I was hoping someone Catholic would chime in on this.


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thewhitrbbit
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25 Oct 2013, 8:51 am

I'm not sure where you are going.



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25 Oct 2013, 9:16 am

I was raised and confirmed Catholic.

I'm really thinking transubstantiation is something closer to a theurgic right.



AspE
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25 Oct 2013, 5:15 pm

auntblabby wrote:
but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?

Maybe it never had a beginning.



auntblabby
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25 Oct 2013, 5:16 pm

AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?

Maybe it never had a beginning.

it takes one helluva mind to be able to even contemplate that which always has existed. eternity is one big thought.



Ancalagon
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25 Oct 2013, 5:45 pm

I don't see the connection. The title of the OP interested me, because the idea that there was a connection between all 4 of those things is likely to be either deeply insane or deeply insightful, and I wanted to know which. Without some sort of explanation, I can't even begin to guess at what you mean.


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AspE
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25 Oct 2013, 5:56 pm

auntblabby wrote:
AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?

Maybe it never had a beginning.

it takes one helluva mind to be able to even contemplate that which always has existed. eternity is one big thought.

Is that any more difficult than imagining a creator?



auntblabby
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25 Oct 2013, 5:59 pm

AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?

Maybe it never had a beginning.

it takes one helluva mind to be able to even contemplate that which always has existed. eternity is one big thought.

Is that any more difficult than imagining a creator?

for me it is harder because the thought is bigger than I am. most human minds are not set up to entertain considerations of things that exist outside of mundane reality. I understand the concept of a creator from the limited view that all things must have a beginning and an end. but that is far from the whole picture.



wozeree
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25 Oct 2013, 6:31 pm

I used to not be able to imagine an "always has been" or even "created from nothing." Now I can appreciate those ideas more because I know a little bit about physics now (not much though). I really honestly think that our minds are so small that we can only imagine these limited scenarios, something created it, it always was or it came from nothing, but there is such vastness of being that we have no experience with that maybe the origin of the universe is something that even our most wildly imaginative scientists or science fiction writers can't begin to imagine.

Edit - sorry I didn't understand the original question.



TheBicyclingGuitarist
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25 Oct 2013, 7:50 pm

auntblabby wrote:
AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
AspE wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
but what created nature? how could it have possibly created itself?

Maybe it never had a beginning.

it takes one helluva mind to be able to even contemplate that which always has existed. eternity is one big thought.

Is that any more difficult than imagining a creator?

for me it is harder because the thought is bigger than I am. most human minds are not set up to entertain considerations of things that exist outside of mundane reality. I understand the concept of a creator from the limited view that all things must have a beginning and an end. but that is far from the whole picture.


But if the Universe had to have been created (according to some ways of thought), then who created the Creator? For me, saying that everything has to have a beginning and saying "God did it" does not really address the issue. And if God did not need a beginning, then why should the universe?

And why can't nature create itself? The Chinese word for nature translates roughly as "that which is of itself so." It seems the eastern philosophies have some insight into the nature of reality considering how many of their ancient teachings are in accordance with findings of modern physics and cosmology.

The western mind is conditioned to think of the world as created, as an artifact, something made. But that is just one way of looking at reality. The Hindus see the universe as a play, of divine consciousness acting the parts of every person and every thing. And the Chinese have an organic model of the universe. They see it as alive, as something that grows, not as something that is made. The 20th century philosopher Alan Watts described these as the ceramic, dramatic and organic models of the universe respectively.


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