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Interesting post on the feminist perspective on sex

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beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 4:53 pm

http://www.giagia.co.uk/2013/10/22/controversy/



GGPViper
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22 Oct 2013, 5:09 pm

Is this another one of your lazy reposts of transphobic articles, or are you actually going to grow a spine and tell us what *your* honest opinion on the subject is?



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 5:24 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Is this another one of your lazy reposts of transphobic articles, or are you actually going to grow a spine and tell us what *your* honest opinion on the subject is?


It's not fully formed. Nevertheless, I do think that clearing the waters with a clean distinction between sex and gender is a good move.



The_Walrus
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22 Oct 2013, 5:27 pm

I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.



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22 Oct 2013, 5:29 pm

beneficii wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Is this another one of your lazy reposts of transphobic articles, or are you actually going to grow a spine and tell us what *your* honest opinion on the subject is?

It's not fully formed. Nevertheless, I do think that clearing the waters with a clean distinction between sex and gender is a good move.

And I don't think starting a crusade against every other transgender individual on the entire planet just because you don't qualify for SRS is a good move.



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 5:32 pm

GGPViper wrote:
beneficii wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Is this another one of your lazy reposts of transphobic articles, or are you actually going to grow a spine and tell us what *your* honest opinion on the subject is?

It's not fully formed. Nevertheless, I do think that clearing the waters with a clean distinction between sex and gender is a good move.

And I don't think starting a crusade against every other transgender individual on the entire planet just because you don't qualify for SRS is a good move.


Who says I don't qualify for SRS? I said I couldn't afford it, not that I was disqualified for it.

Either way, where am I starting a crusade?



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 5:37 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture, the fact that if a man has his way with you you may be carrying a fetus for 9 months, and therefore that very personal need for abortion rights.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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22 Oct 2013, 5:48 pm

beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture, the fact that if a man has his way with you you may be carrying a fetus for 9 months, and therefore that very personal need for abortion rights.

So, rape that doesn't result in pregnancy isn't really rape?



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 5:51 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture, the fact that if a man has his way with you you may be carrying a fetus for 9 months, and therefore that very personal need for abortion rights.

So, rape that doesn't result in pregnancy isn't really rape?


I didn't say that at all. What I was saying is that when you grow up as a boy/man, you don't have the threat of rape hang over you like the Sword of Damocles like those who grow up as girls/women experience.

Then again, now that I think about it, those trans women who as children were very visibly feminine might have a rape threat. I'd like to see some research on this.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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22 Oct 2013, 6:08 pm

beneficii wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture, the fact that if a man has his way with you you may be carrying a fetus for 9 months, and therefore that very personal need for abortion rights.

So, rape that doesn't result in pregnancy isn't really rape?


I didn't say that at all. What I was saying is that when you grow up as a boy/man, you don't have the threat of rape hang over you like the Sword of Damocles like those who grow up as girls/women experience.

Then again, now that I think about it, those trans women who as children were very visibly feminine might have a rape threat. I'd like to see some research on this.

Pedophilia doesn't seem limited to little girls, though, i.e. Jerry Sandusky. I don't know the stats but my impression is that boys are more often victims of that.

Also, rape, if you include what happens in prisons is actually more frequent for men than women, and most boys have heard the "in prison/jail Bubbu's gonna make you his b*tch" line in their teens if not sooner (i.e. the movie Bad Boys II, where a teen is threatened with that by some cops).

So, I don't think it's really an exclusively female phenomenon. I think the author of the blog post is simply trying to justify an essentialist view and is trying to cast various things as that.



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 6:15 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture, the fact that if a man has his way with you you may be carrying a fetus for 9 months, and therefore that very personal need for abortion rights.

So, rape that doesn't result in pregnancy isn't really rape?


I didn't say that at all. What I was saying is that when you grow up as a boy/man, you don't have the threat of rape hang over you like the Sword of Damocles like those who grow up as girls/women experience.

Then again, now that I think about it, those trans women who as children were very visibly feminine might have a rape threat. I'd like to see some research on this.

Pedophilia doesn't seem limited to little girls, though, i.e. Jerry Sandusky. I don't know the stats but my impression is that boys are more often victims of that.

Also, rape, if you include what happens in prisons is actually more frequent for men than women, and most boys have heard the "in prison/jail Bubbu's gonna make you his b*tch" line in their teens if not sooner (i.e. the movie Bad Boys II, where a teen is threatened with that by some cops).


As girls grow up, they are taught to be wary of men. They have various issues bundled up in this, like accusation of being a slut when a woman's rape allegation isn't believed and pregnancy. There is rape culture. With all this, there is a very conscious sense of a Sword of Damocles hanging over girls and women that is absent for boys and men.

Of course, pedophilia and prison rape are significant issues, but they do not have the pervasive, universal effect like the fear of rape does for girls and women.



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 6:28 pm

Let's put it like this: Growing up as a boy/man, rape was probably the furthest thing from my mind. Nevertheless, the same was not true from my sister, who actually was raped. She's told me about how she has to be worried about how she interacts around guys. These are individual examples, but I think they fit the paradigm pretty well.



naturalplastic
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22 Oct 2013, 7:04 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.




Also, rape, if you include what happens in prisons is actually more frequent for men than women, and most boys have heard the "in prison/jail Bubbu's gonna make you his b*tch" line in their teens if not sooner (i.e. the movie Bad Boys II, where a teen is threatened with that by some cops).
t.


"In prison" is not just walking down the street.

A man has to be either a felon, or be a freedom fighter like Lawrence of Arabia( and piss off the Ottoman Turks), to get into a situation where he has to worry about being raped. You worry about your grandma, daugher, etc being raped all of the time. You dont worry about your son being raped-unless he's a convicted felon, or is Lawerence of Arabia.



beneficii
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22 Oct 2013, 7:13 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"In prison" is not just walking down the street.

A man has to be either a felon, or be a freedom fighter like Lawrence of Arabia( and piss off the Ottoman Turks), to get into a situation where he has to worry about being raped. You worry about your grandma, daugher, etc being raped all of the time. You dont worry about your son being raped-unless he's a convicted felon, or is Lawerence of Arabia.


Exactly. Also, it looks like the quotes in your post got messed up, making it look like you were responding to me, when you were actually responding to Apple in my Eye. Could you try fixing them?



The_Walrus
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23 Oct 2013, 6:30 am

beneficii wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think that has much to do with feminism. Just because it is written by a feminist doesn't mean it is "the feminist perspective".

It was a good article though, it articulates the difference between sex and gender well.


I agree, and that distinction is important because of the differing trajectories that boys/men and girls/women go down. A trans woman, no matter how passable, no matter how many procedures she can get done, will never understand being on the wrong side of rape culture

Now here I disagree with you.

Rape is wrong because of the violation, not because a female who is raped might become pregnant. A mtf has to worry about rape in the same way a ciswoman has to.
A man may not have to worry about rape as much, but they do have to fear other forms of violence- men are 3 times more likely to be murder victims than women, for example, and are more likely to suffer serious injury from assault. Men don't grow up being able to trust strangers late at night.



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23 Oct 2013, 10:49 am

This TERF BS article has nothing to do with feminism. Or actually, with non-bullshit feminism.

My feminism will be intersectional or else it will be BS.


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