The structural roots of Israeli Apartheid

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28 Oct 2013, 3:14 pm

The normalisation of ethnic cleansing in the liberal order betray the order's structural character

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 19688.html

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Kurgan
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28 Oct 2013, 4:14 pm

Why don't all the jew bashers out there start focusing more on what goes on in the rest of the Middle East. Is there a law out there that says it's not a human rights violation unless the jews did it? For every Palestinian killed by Israeli forces, there are thousands of people killed by Assad, Abdullah II and Khameni. Furthermore, I've never seen an anti-Israeli activist mention the fact that the Gaza strip has one of the highest rates of executions per capita in the world, that Hamas bans homosexuality and that the barrier has saved thousands of lives... but hey, neither the jews nor a capitalist country did it, so I guess it's just "a part of their culture that we need to accept".

thomas81
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28 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm

Who's a Jew basher?

Don't bother addressing the article while you're at it.

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Kurgan
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28 Oct 2013, 4:45 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Who's a Jew basher?

Don't bother addressing the article while you're at it.

I've read a lot of articles attacking straw men, believing that Israel is the worst perpetrator of human rights violations. Israel is by no means a perfect country, but it's still has the cleanest slate in the Middle East. Many American, British or for that matter Scandinavian soldiers have done worse things in the Middle East than Israel has done in Palestinian territories. While you still constantly hear about 100,000 Palestinians who left their homes in 1947, you never hear anything about five million hindus who were forcefully removed from what's now called Pakistan the very same year.

thomas81
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28 Oct 2013, 4:51 pm

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Who's a Jew basher?

Don't bother addressing the article while you're at it.

that is completely airbrushing over the point of the article. Keeping attention focused on the behaviour of the Palestinian authorities is just creating a tangent narrative. Moreover, the Palestinians didn't leave by their own volition, they were forcibly removed. Google 'The Nakba'.

the main thrust is this-

1) a campaign of 'normalisation' is being orchestrated against the Palestinian people in that Israel is being given an air of legitimacy analogous to other developed economies in spite of the fact that its creation was founded on brutalisation land theft, and cultural genocide. Completely un-analogous to other liberal democracies.

2) That the whole thrust of the Israeli governments case is built on ignorance and racism, that the Palestinians are inherently unreasonable, incapable of diplomacy and the cause of their grievances are invalid.

3) That the idea of Jewish identity and Israeli nationality is being unduly obfuscated and muddled. That there are Jews living thousands of miles away who have never been to the middle east yet have more entitlements and benefits in Israel than indigenous Palestinians whose lineage goes back centuries.

All of these points and more are outlined in the article. I shouldn't be having to retype them. Did you not read them or are you just too lazy?

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Tequila
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28 Oct 2013, 5:09 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Google 'The Nakba'.

Ah, I know what that is. The failed attempt to exterminate the Jews of Mandatory Palestine.

Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, on the eve of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War (or 'Nakba' as the losers call it):

Quote:

This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.

Kurgan
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28 Oct 2013, 5:25 pm

thomas81 wrote:

1) a campaign of 'normalisation' is being orchestrated against the Palestinian people in that Israel is being given an air of legitimacy analogous to other developed economies in spite of the fact that its creation was founded on brutalisation land theft, and cultural genocide. Completely un-analogous to other liberal democracies.

Please elaborate on what made it cultural genocide. The Brits took the land from the Ottomans, who took it from the Ottomans, who took it from the Brits, who took it from the Arabs, who took it from the Byzantines/Romans--who took it from the jews. Palestinian nationalism arose in the late 1960's.

Quote:

2) That the whole thrust of the Israeli governments case is built on ignorance and racism, that the Palestinians are inherently unreasonable, incapable of diplomacy and the cause of their grievances are invalid.

Nobody said that. Hamas is pretty much proving that they're incapable of diplomacy by sending missiles and by their frequent suicide bombings before the barrier was in place.

Quote:

3) That the idea of Jewish identity and Israeli nationality is being unduly obfuscated and muddled. That there are Jews living thousands of miles away who have never been to the middle east yet have more entitlements and benefits in Israel than indigenous Palestinians whose lineage goes back centuries.

The Jewish identity has existed for thousands of years -- and Israeli nationalism arose in the wake of how the Ottoman empire treated ethnic minorities between the mid 18th century and WWI.

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28 Oct 2013, 5:35 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Nobody said that.

I think you'd only find that kind of sentiment on the very extreme far-right fringes of Israeli society. Kahanism is considered a lunatic fringe movement in Israel, and the adherents are widely thought of as fascists.

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28 Oct 2013, 5:41 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Hamas is pretty much proving that they're incapable of diplomacy by sending missiles and by their frequent suicide bombings before the barrier was in place.

And from screening stuff like these clips on local Hamas TV in Gaza:

Hamas lauds its terrorist wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj0eO5Xw5BY[/youtube]

Wife of Hamas leader claims that mother's role is to instill "love of jihad and martyrdom" in their kids:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYGASd6NFyo[/youtube]

Hamas official preaches for the annihilation of Jews - note, not Israelis - and Americans:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkQGjQ8dWI[/youtube]

Another Hamas MP: the Jews were brought to Palestine for a (future) great massacre:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fic15V8ChE[/youtube]

Yet another Hamas MP: the Germans punished the Jews, now it's the turn of the Ummah:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvTejpelcRI[/youtube]

And another Hamas MP: the Jews are behind every catastrophe on Earth:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ARQ6MHUXEg[/youtube]

Hamas television lauds female suicide bombers and jihadists:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6VlMtA9X6w[/youtube]

And on and on and Ariston...

Last edited by Tequila on 28 Oct 2013, 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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28 Oct 2013, 5:41 pm

Tequila wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Nobody said that.

If I remember correctly, political parties in Israel have been banned from elections in the past for holding radical anti Palestinian and/or jewish theocratic views.

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28 Oct 2013, 5:46 pm

Kurgan wrote:

If I remember correctly, political parties in Israel have been banned from elections in the past for holding radical anti Palestinian and/or jewish theocratic views.

Meir Kahane got elected in 1984 to the Knesset. He was treated with absolute revulsion and disgust inside the Knesset, and the entire Knesset routinely left the chamber when he started speaking. Kach (the party of Meir Kahane) was banned from contesting the 1988 elections. After Kahane was murdered in 1990, a new party, Kahane Chai, was set up. Kahane Chai was banned from contesting the 1992 elections, and both Kach and Kahane Chai were banned outright in 1994.

Last edited by Tequila on 28 Oct 2013, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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28 Oct 2013, 5:47 pm

The problem is that Tequila is creating a fallacious, unfair broader anti-Palestinian narrative by focussing solely on the words and deeds of Hamas. This disregards the fact that Hamas is in power largely because of Israeli aggression in the first place.

The AJ journalist correctly outlines how this hysteria is extruded by the Israeli hawks to airbrush and disregard legitimate Palestinian grievances.

i'll respond to you tomorrow in greater detail, but i think spamming with videos violates the forum rules.

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Last edited by thomas81 on 28 Oct 2013, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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28 Oct 2013, 5:48 pm

thomas81 wrote:

i'll respond to you tomorrow in greater detail, but i think spamming with videos violates the forum rules.

Have you watched the videos?

The Nazis of Hamas are as much a threat to ordinary Gazans and Egyptians as they are to Israelis.

For any peace settlement to happen, they (and the PLO, and any anti-Zionist movements) have to be snubbed decisively and permanently by the Palestinian population.

The Palestinians will have to move away from the destructive hatred that has trapped them and kept them miserable. It's a huge thing to ask of them. Perhaps things may change in several generations.

Last edited by Tequila on 28 Oct 2013, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Oct 2013, 5:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:

i'll respond to you tomorrow in greater detail, but i think spamming with videos violates the forum rules.

Did you read what I said about David Kahane?

The Israelis banned his party (which advocated forcing out all of the Arabs from the Land of Israel and setting up a totalitarian Jewish theocratic state) from contesting elections because they considered him to be inciting racism and undermining the democratic nature of Israel.

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28 Oct 2013, 5:53 pm

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

i'll respond to you tomorrow in greater detail, but i think spamming with videos violates the forum rules.

Have you watched the videos?

The Nazis of Hamas are as much a threat to ordinary Gazans and Egyptians as they are to Israelis.

For any peace settlement to happen, they have to be decisively and permanently destroyed. As does the PLO for that matter.

The Palestinians will have to move away from the destructive hatred that has trapped them and kept them miserable. It's a huge thing to ask of them. Perhaps things may change in several generations.

The article I posted doesn't mention Hamas. It talks about how the Israeli government is unfairly ignoring Palestinian grievances by focussing on the words and deeds of extremists.

I will give you a breakdown response tomorrow.

Nazis though... ...pfft thats a far stretch, even for your hysterical standards, teq.

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28 Oct 2013, 6:03 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Nazis though... ...pfft thats a far stretch, even for your hysterical standards, teq.

Their Charter reads like something that Hitler would have wrote. I'm not joking. Quoting the Protocols and antisemitic conspiracy theories, and quoting genocidal Islamic hadiths as support for their position (the garqhad tree). Lots of quotations in it from Islamic sources that endorses fighting Jews. It sees the Arab-Israeli conflict as a conflict between the Jews and the Muslims, that the Muslims must win. It's a disgusting, racist document.

They're not much less savage towards their own people either. Think about what they do to people singing at weddings.

Incidentally, even in Gaza, a lot of people (who aren't supporters of Israel, before you ask) don't like living under Hamas because they find them to be religious totalitarians but they mostly don't say so out loud for obvious reasons due to the brutality of their rule.

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