I'm worried about the state of gender issues.

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Hi, I'm lostathome, and this may be the last gender thread I ever participate in.

What happens every time people discuss gender? Rational, calm, balanced discussion, at first, maybe even throughout amongst the ensuing chaos, but eventually, two extremes get involved, the extremist feminist, and the extremist men's rights...person. There isn't a word for that yet. And rarely just one of each extreme, either.

And these extremes drown out and destroy any chance for progress. "Raagh" says the extreme feminist "This thing totally not related to rape in any way shape or form is encouraging rape, and if you disagree with me, you're just part of the conspiracy made up of rapists", "Bleh" says the extremist men's rights person, "If a women wears revealing clothes as she is free to do in free countries, she is asking to be raped, and thus it is okay".

And these people exist. They vote. They're allowed in public, probably to a greater degree of freedom than some people on this site are. But worst of all, they're loud. They rarely shut up about their equally ridiculous viewpoints.

See, there are still gender issues these days. Some people would like to believe that sexism is a thing of the past, to be looked at as an absurd relic as black slavery is looked at now. I would like to believe that too, but I would also like to believe that politicians always have their country's best interests at heart, but it simply isn't true. There are still absurd pay differences, there is still discrimination, there is still objectification.

Similiarly, these things can also happen to men. In Britain, we still have a huge problem with favouritism towards the mother in divorces involving children. I don't know about you, but one of my biggest fears is that I eventually do have sex (consesually, of course, with someone in her right mind) and come the morning, she accuses me of rape because she doesn't want people to publicly know she willingly slept with someone as hideous as me. Which is understandable, but it loses me at the point that I'm chucked in jail for a crime I would never commit.

Point is, I'm afraid for gender issues. I'm afraid in this war of constantly offended tumblr users and frat boy a**holes, any chance for true equality will be lost. The debate simply gets more and more agressive, and eventually, it's an incomprehensible shouting match. If these people gain ground, nobody will really win. We'll just end up with societal movements happening that hurt everyone, regardless of gender, instead of the move towards absolute equality we should be striving for.

But what can we really do? Us sane (well, saner), rational people caught in the maelstrom of bile surrounding gender issues? Fact is, they're louder than us.

And they're probably going to drive this thread into the ground, too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Y0I91rubg[/youtube]Men in a nutshell.

I think you're just seeing these issues as augmented through the lens of "internet rage."

People can lose all sense of civility when they're hiding behind a computer screen.

Off-line, my general approach to other's "opinions" is, if you don't pay my bills, I don't care what you think. The internet is the only time I bother "debating."

Last edited by XFilesGeek on 27 Oct 2013, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Feminism is the result of teaching the above in gender-segregated biology classes.

I fear the drawing is quite right, but generalising. There are men, although I sometimes fear to be in a minority, who don't rate sex that highly and highly admire women. Personally, I have a strong feminin character and I'm proud of that, I also am proud to show my feminin side. Women tend to be a lot more open-minded so generally I feel a lot better in female company (and this has nothing to do with being male and heterosexual; I mean for just conversations and spending a fun night with friends, women often make the nicer company ;;; when it comes to sexuality: I am almost shy to tell a woman I find her pretty, because I want to focus on the personality rather than the looks, and I do not wish to be associated with those men to whom personality and shallowness are what matters)

I often feel the need to apologise for being a man, because I'm not proud of the way some men talk about women or treat them. Makes me feel embarrassed to be male myself.

Taken on its own, the drawing is a harmless joke. Put in context of, for example, a feminist mentality and it becomes a hypocritical judgement. In neither case is it "right".



You seem to be of the opinion that enjoying sex and admiring the person you have sex with are mutually exclusive, which I find idiotic. Also sex is supposed to be "highly rated", it's one of the key reasons we've flourished as a species.



What exactly do you mean by this? Why is displaying a character trait something to be proud of? If men and women are equal, why do you purport to have a "feminin(sic) character"?



Evidence please.



I think that "I feel a lot better in female company, therefore I believe they are more open-minded" would have been more honest.



Men have a monopoly on shallowness and women are more open-minded? You make generalisations based on gender, I suggest this makes you a bigot.



Essentially you're saying that you feel that you should apologise just for existing. But wait, you're also implying that all black people should feel guilty because of street gangs, or that all women should feel guilty because of Myra Hindley. Guilt by association? Perhaps I should spend more time apologising for the actions of Hitler who, after all, was also a man.

Admiration and respect are something you earn on an individual basis, not forms of currency that you're entitled to just because you sit down to urinate or hail from a distant land. Demanding respect for 'women' is like saying "You should respect me despite my gender". I personally respect those people who choose to respect themselves and others, regardless of their creed, colour or gender.

Incidentally, this disqualifies Crazed extremists of all flavours by default.

Those sort of women are rarer than you think. If you have good taste in women (or get to know the woman well first) then a more like outcome on the morning after sex would be that she would want to have sex with you again.

The idea that women are always up for sex and always secretly 'want it' and that no means yes is disgusting and it's rape culture.

But I find the idea that women don't know their own mind and will accuse men of rape after consensual sex because they never really 'want it' offensive, too. Not that you offended me, it's just that cultural meme offends me.

I share Lost's concern with the PC biased presumptions in justice. It's impossible for any man to anything in pursuit of any partnered experience at all without the danger that if unwelcomed it will count as a crime of sexual harassment and get the man into trouble.

Socially successful and popular men get away with it, with the actions involved in partnering, while men without a social belonging base to defend them are in a more fearful position excluded from possibilities, because they face a strong chance of getting turned on and called monsters by the feminist PC, for exactly the same actions as were accepted as okay for the more successful men.

A Different Name: maybe you grew up in a tolerant environment. I grew up in a very conservative countryside place where being slightly out of the usual was frowned upon. Every man has a feminin side and I am glad to display mine simply because I see no reason to hide it.

I never said that all men would be ... and all women would be openminded and ... There are exceptions to every rule and I made that very clear. I am just saying, from experience I find women a lot more openminded, less competitive and more open to new ideas. Can I prove this? No, it's an impression from years of socialising with both genders and coming to the conclusion that I met much more openminded women while men seem to be more conformist. Again this may vary from place to place, I talk about my own experiences and I emphasised that one should never generalise as exceptions to each rule exist.

Apparently there is no rape culture

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KQQ1bzQn0k[/youtube]

Wow that didn't take long to get to the extremes.

Your absolutely right though, but it's far worse than gender issues. You could replace gender issues with anyone. People are becoming more and more radicalized, and it's a problem that's not limited to one side of the aisle.