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ArrantPariah
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21 Nov 2013, 12:02 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olUsgn-Ubh0#t=34[/youtube]



zer0netgain
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22 Nov 2013, 7:43 am

1. Employers pay what the market demands. When more people are out of work, there is no incentive to raise pay. When there is low unemployment, they have to pay to attract people worth hiring. Look at any place where people won't take a job if it doesn't meet a minimum pay level...they employers pay more for even menial jobs.

2. 10 years with McDonalds? If she is good at what she does, she should be in management or working for someone else unless the economy in Chicago is that bad. If it's that bad, see point #1 above.

3. The double-edge sword of ANY welfare program is that it creates the incentive for anyone (including employers) to take advantage of it. Why pay your workers more when they qualify for benefits the government will give them that you are already paying for in taxes levied against your profits (yes, McDonalds and others pay taxes that support these programs)?

4. While some would debate the end-impact on the consumer, the more you pay for things (salary/benefits), the more you must raise the price on goods and services. If the prices go up too much, you will lose customers. If your competitors WILL NOT do the same, then you are pricing yourself at a disadvantage in the marketplace. THIS IS THE REASON THE "GLOBAL ECONOMY" IS SUCH HOGWASH. The USA can't match the pay scale of India or Pakistan. Removing trade tariffs that balanced the price of goods so domestic and foreign goods had to compete on the issue of quality resulted in the market catering to whomever could sell a good cheaper. Harbor Freight Tools carries a ton of stuff dirt cheap. Most of it is "Made in China" garbage that might break after the 3rd or 4th use, but for the price, it's worth it if you only need it once or twice. For anything you'll use all the time, you are better served to buy a quality-made tool at 3 times the price. Sadly, the better quality tools are losing sales on that very principle....why pay for quality when it's cheaper to replace the tool for the rare time you need it?



ArrantPariah
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22 Nov 2013, 10:41 am

Probably the best solution is a single-payer health insurance plan, like in Canada, instead of relying upon employers to provide socialism for their employees. Obamacare is a decent step in the right direction.

Also, a higher minimum wage wouldn't put one fast food chain (that might consider raising wages) at a disadvantage compared to others (that kept wages at the bare minimum).



thomas81
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22 Nov 2013, 12:04 pm

McDonalds employees, like all American workers worst enemies are these anti union lobbies that like to portray unions as mafias and gangsters that bully people.

If Mcdonalds workers had a strong union they could fight for better pay on their own terms and wouldn't be susceptible to this kind of exploitation and indifference in the first place.


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ruveyn
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22 Nov 2013, 12:22 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Probably the best solution is a single-payer health insurance plan, like in Canada, instead of relying upon employers to provide socialism for their employees. Obamacare is a decent step in the right direction.

Also, a higher minimum wage wouldn't put one fast food chain (that might consider raising wages) at a disadvantage compared to others (that kept wages at the bare minimum).


obamacare is a bad step. Lord Obama very cynically crafted a "plan" (if you can call what he did craft) that would profit the Cronies in the Insurance Industry. Obamacare combines the worst aspects of government regulated and privately provide health insurance and health care. We shall all live to regret it.

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22 Nov 2013, 12:27 pm

Walmart could give 50% pay raises - link


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zacb
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22 Nov 2013, 2:02 pm

thomas81 wrote:
McDonalds employees, like all American workers worst enemies are these anti union lobbies that like to portray unions as mafias and gangsters that bully people.

If Mcdonalds workers had a strong union they could fight for better pay on their own terms and wouldn't be susceptible to this kind of exploitation and indifference in the first place.


True. Then again our labor laws are garbled by both big labor and big business. We need neutral rule. Right to work should not be allowed unless there is no union, but unions should not force people to join their union if the person is already working for them. If they join the company after unionization, then that would seem fair, at least to me. These are the problems I see with both side.



sonofghandi
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22 Nov 2013, 2:07 pm

zacb wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
McDonalds employees, like all American workers worst enemies are these anti union lobbies that like to portray unions as mafias and gangsters that bully people.

If Mcdonalds workers had a strong union they could fight for better pay on their own terms and wouldn't be susceptible to this kind of exploitation and indifference in the first place.


True. Then again our labor laws are garbled by both big labor and big business. We need neutral rule. Right to work should not be allowed unless there is no union, but unions should not force people to join their union if the person is already working for them. If they join the company after unionization, then that would seem fair, at least to me. These are the problems I see with both side.


Agreed. When unions first came into power here, they were absolutely needed. Now, however, they have become so bloated and unrealistic that they are more detrimental to the workers' long term security than they are helping. But we can't just get rid of them or market conditions will rapidly jump back to a place that would make China's working class look fortunate by comparison.


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22 Nov 2013, 2:07 pm

How much an employer cares about their employees is a reflection of how much they care about their customers.
poor treatment of employees = poor quality product/service.

Paying an employee minimum wage tells that employee "I'd pay you less, but the government won't let me."


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22 Nov 2013, 3:02 pm

http://www.policymic.com/articles/74297 ... -employees


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zacb
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22 Nov 2013, 4:05 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
zacb wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
McDonalds employees, like all American workers worst enemies are these anti union lobbies that like to portray unions as mafias and gangsters that bully people.

If Mcdonalds workers had a strong union they could fight for better pay on their own terms and wouldn't be susceptible to this kind of exploitation and indifference in the first place.


True. Then again our labor laws are garbled by both big labor and big business. We need neutral rule. Right to work should not be allowed unless there is no union, but unions should not force people to join their union if the person is already working for them. If they join the company after unionization, then that would seem fair, at least to me. These are the problems I see with both side.


Agreed. When unions first came into power here, they were absolutely needed. Now, however, they have become so bloated and unrealistic that they are more detrimental to the workers' long term security than they are helping. But we can't just get rid of them or market conditions will rapidly jump back to a place that would make China's working class look fortunate by comparison.


I am not quite sure. It would be competitive yes. But regardless I agree Republicans tend to bash unions to much (even if unions do step over the line). I felt kinda conflicted though about the union initiative in my state. I think private employees should have a right to unionize, but I feel mixed about a government unions. I do agree that people have the right to unionize and such, but I am kinda concerned about how it will create a phantom work force. So I had to vote no on it. If it was just private sector I would have said yes.