Question about Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins

Post Reply New Topic

I was at a carol service tonight. A reading from genesis described childbirth pain as a punishment for giving Adam the apple (even though it wasn't forbidden to give him an apple, only for him to eat it).

So how come that sin wasn't forgiven if Jesus sacrificed himself so we could all be forgiven and absolved of our sins? I've had children, it definitely hurts.

In Christian theology, forgiveness occurs for the benefit of your eternal body and/or soul, not your temporal body.

And it wasn't an apple.

I had pain relief.

Hallelujah!

That's a pretty abbreviated summary of what is actually written in the bible regardless of who is interpreting it. Even within Christianity itself versus the Abrahamic subset of religions, there are many interpretations on how to look at this particular facet of christianity.

If you really want to know more, you can devote your time to studying it, or you can just go with whatever your current affiliation is and just take their stance.

I'm not a Christian, but I will answer this for you. He forgives your sins not the effects of your sins.

If you are serving time in prison for murdering people and accept Christ, do you get let out of Jail? If you tried to commit suicide, did brain damage to yourself, when you accept Jesus, does your brain get fixed? He forgives the sin you still have to live with the effects of your decisions. I'm not saying I agree, I'm just guessing that's how it willed be answered.

Oh and on this statement "even though it wasn't forbidden to give him an apple, only for him to eat it)". You might want to read genesis 3:3, it was also forbidden to touch it.

Upon Jesus second coming and his 1000 year reign, he will restore the Creation back to its former perfection before then giving it back to God.
I expect that then childbirth will be restored to its pre-fall pain level.

As for Jesus sacrifice in all this, its a free gift but you have to accept the free gift to benefit from it. It would enable you to be cleansed of sin so that you can be counted part of the restored creation.

Hiya Nambo! I hope you are well

So is the pain of getting kicked in the nuts also supposed to be a punishment for Adam eating the apple? That would make it a little more fair between males and females, but not really.

Mortality itsself is punishment for this fruit transgression, as is 'having to earn your bread by the sweat of your brow" both of which hits both genders. So there is enough trevail to go around.

Even the snakes got hit!

Apparently serpents originally had limbs, but now 'move upon thier bellies' (cartoonist R.Crumb published a comic book version of the Bible that had 'the serpent' with four limbs walking around upright like a bird, or a t-rex, while conversing with Eve, and sans limbs only after the fall).

I would think passing a very large tapeworm or kidney stone would be the closest thing we can feel to childbirth.

Adam and Eve we're not immortal in the garden of eden. They had yet to eat from the tree of life See Gen3:22. So the punishment would actually have been the taking away of the potential for immortality.

That's twice in this thread. Anyone else want the non-Christian to show you what your book actually says?

Possibly, but not necessarily.

For instance, is there a difference between Immortality and everlasting life?
Immortality once granted you will be immortal.
Everlasting life on the other hand might need constant eating from the tree of life to maintain life, Revelation 22 for instance says:-
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month.

So, not a month would go by without access to the tree of life, and I wonder why?
What would happen if Humans went a length of time without eating from the Tree of Life?

So, are we really sure Adam and Eve had never once eaten from the Tree of Life in Eden, and that God was preventing further access to it to fulfill the promise that eating from the tree of Knowledge would result in "Death" on that very day?


Hiya Babybird!

MY book?

I'm a pagan. And my 'book' is the Greek myths which include Pandora's Box. Pandora's box and the Fall are variants of the same story: all of the bad stuff in the world came from one chick disobeying the Gods. Whether its potential or actual immortatlity doesnt really change the outcome of what the chick did.



Lol!

its a good point. Also if the atonement answers for every sin, how is it that every human since adam hasn't been retroactively readmitted to the garden of eden?

It doesn't atone for every sin, it can do, but the sinner has to want to be atoned.
The atonement only became paid for when Jesus was sacrificed for one, so all those that died previously were already dead.
They, and everyone who dies after Christ as well, have to wait for the Resurrection at Jesus 2nd coming to get a "retroactive" readmission to life, not to the Garden at this stage as it was destroyed in the flood.

I guess it would have been legal for all those who had died to come back to life as soon as Jesus died, but I dont think Gods plan would work so well in a world where millions of previously dead people where now milling around the now cursed Earth, being tempted by the very things in Satans World that the Knowledge of which God had previously hidden in the fruit of the tree because even resurrected Humans wont be like God, able to chose between good and bad.

Besides which, they would need access to the Tree of Life, which would still have to be denied to those who were still in debt to sin.

Best way is Gods way, which is to wait until the Earth has been transformed back into a Garden of Eden, then resurrect the dead back into it.

Fundamentally the whole story is untrue. God did not sacrifice his only son, ignoring the bizarre nature of sacrificing your son so that you can forgive others their sins against you. Jesus walked the earth after the event and then went back to heaven. Where is the sacrifice??