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RedStar98
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02 Jan 2014, 7:21 am

I was just wondering as I don't come into contact with a lot of people with the same views as me (speaking as a Marxist), especially people my age. Sometimes its easy to feel like I'm the only one, although I'm sure that's not true. I'm very interested in politics and philosophy, as well as history. So, does anyone here share the same kind of views? If so, how old were you when you began to learn about it, and what's it like for you/what do you think of today's world?
I was about 12 when I took an interest, and knew I was communist from around that point onwards as I began to learn about various political standpoints. Both my parents are right wing, and although I don't really have any friends no one I know is particularly interested in politics or philosophy full stop. I usually go online to discuss/learn about this kind of thing for that reason.


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ModusPonens
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02 Jan 2014, 7:36 am

I was 13 when I started to learn about politics. I became a communist, thinking Stalin was applying the correct politics. Then I gradualy realised what a monumental scumbag that guy was. If you want to, take a look at the ucranian genocide during the USSR years.

Basicaly, what I want to say is that, when you realise that the "communist" systems that ruled in several places were disgusting dictatorships, don't become so disapointed as to become right wing. Even though communism didn't work _ nor will it work in the next 200 years _ the left wing framework is still the fairest political system. Only it has to be democratic.



Fnord
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02 Jan 2014, 8:59 am

Communism is a joke (a very, very bad joke).

When "Sharing the Wealth" means that the State owns everything, and that only those who run the State can be guaranteed to have nutritious food, fashionable clothing, mansions, limousines, and effective medical care, then Communism will rapidly devolve into a dictatorship.

Russia was once ruled by the Tsars, who practically owned everything, and whose ever word was law.

After the revolution, Russia (the USSR) was ruled by the Communist Party, which owned everything, and from which every decree was law.



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02 Jan 2014, 9:03 am

Fnord wrote:
Communism is a joke (a very, very bad joke).

When "Sharing the Wealth" means that the State owns everything, and that only those who run the State can be guaranteed to have nutritious food, fashionable clothing, mansions, limousines, and effective medical care, then Communism will rapidly devolve into a dictatorship.

Russia was once ruled by the Tsars, who practically owned everything, and whose ever word was law.

After the revolution, Russia (the USSR) was ruled by the Communist Party, which owned everything, and from which every decree was law.


Very true. I tell you this: I would prefer to live in an authentic communist regime, than in a totaly capitalist one. The problem is that we, as a human race are not prepared for such a thing. Plus, I think it's not a completely fair system to begin with. Fairest, in theory, than total capitalism, but not in practice.



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02 Jan 2014, 9:10 am

By the way, since 1900 we had enough different political systems to draw some preliminary conclusions. Since the drive of any human being is to be happy and avoid suffering _ whatever way they choose to obtain this _ we can measure the success of the systems so far, by this parameter. And the best system so far, is the nordic system.

Even by purely economic parameters, the nordic systems are ahead: they have 35 to 40 hours a week jobs; they are not permited to stay late at work; but still, they have aproximately the same GDP per capita as the US. The US is the most powerful economy, has vaster land and resources, has 60 hour work weeks and is surpassed by some of the nordic countries in GDP per capita. Let alone what's important: well being.

This is preliminary evidence.



Robdemanc
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02 Jan 2014, 11:00 am

Communism is a theoretical idea that has never been applied. China, Russia, they were not communist in its pure sense.

In my opinion Communism would only work in societies of small populations. There is little hope for communism to work on a global scale, especially with our 6 billion + population.

But I don't think we should limit ourselves to a choice of either communism, socialism, or capitalism.

We could, if we tried, mix the three together, and enjoy the benefits.

It is conceivable to apply a communal ownership of energy/agriculture/mining etc and allow capitalism to rule the secondary and tertiary industries.



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02 Jan 2014, 12:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Communism is a joke (a very, very bad joke).

When "Sharing the Wealth" means that the State owns everything, and that only those who run the State can be guaranteed to have nutritious food, fashionable clothing, mansions, limousines, and effective medical care, then Communism will rapidly devolve into a dictatorship.

Russia was once ruled by the Tsars, who practically owned everything, and whose ever word was law.

After the revolution, Russia (the USSR) was ruled by the Communist Party, which owned everything, and from which every decree was law.

I wouldn't call communism a joke, rather than leninism and the multiple ideologys it formed.



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02 Jan 2014, 12:37 pm

[snark]

Philosophy for teenagers in a nutshell:

Image

[/snark]



AlanMooresBeard
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02 Jan 2014, 1:34 pm

I'm closer to a socialist than a communist though my own views are probably more of a social democrat that leans to the left rather than the centre. I'm certainly no Blairite that's for sure! I first started to become politically aware in my late teens. My mother is a life-long Labour supporter who works in the public sector so I think she has had an influence on my political outlook. I've always been very anti-Conservative and I ended up joining Labour within months of the 2010 election and have been an activist in my local area although I've not always been comfortable doing so due to my AS.



thomas81
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02 Jan 2014, 2:10 pm

I am sympathetic to socialist/communist goals but would class myself a a technocrat rather than a traditional communist or socialist.

I believe that scarcity and the human nature question can only be answered through the abolition of the price system and menial labour for humans.

Have you tried revleft yet?


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02 Jan 2014, 2:28 pm

We American liberals get accused of being communists by our conservative brethren all the time, even though it was liberals like FDR who had prevented either a slide into communism or fascism during the Great Depression with his New Deal programs.


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RedStar98
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02 Jan 2014, 2:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Have you tried revleft yet?


I have as matter of fact, its a great site.



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02 Jan 2014, 2:31 pm

RedStar98 wrote:
I was just wondering as I don't come into contact with a lot of people with the same views as me (speaking as a Marxist), especially people my age. Sometimes its easy to feel like I'm the only one, although I'm sure that's not true. I'm very interested in politics and philosophy, as well as history. So, does anyone here share the same kind of views? If so, how old were you when you began to learn about it, and what's it like for you/what do you think of today's world?
I was about 12 when I took an interest, and knew I was communist from around that point onwards as I began to learn about various political standpoints. Both my parents are right wing, and although I don't really have any friends no one I know is particularly interested in politics or philosophy full stop. I usually go online to discuss/learn about this kind of thing for that reason.
You remind me quite a bit of myself, especially when I was around your age. :D I first got interested in politics when I was around 11. Only at first I thought of myself as being a conservative, though I think in retrospect I was more so a philosophical anarchist/radical libertarian. But I feel that this was because my family, both immediate, and extended, tends to be conservative right, plus I did not know, or care much about economics. Now of days I have ended up synthesizing my various political tendencies, and influences, into a type of liberal socialism. More specifically, my ideological worldview is characterized as being a libertarian, western marxism. But I also liked "The State and Revolution", by Lenin. So I suppose that I might be considered to be a eurocommunist. About the only real world examples of Communism that I support in practice are that of goulash Communism, and Titoism.



thomas81
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02 Jan 2014, 3:25 pm

RedStar98 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Have you tried revleft yet?


I have as matter of fact, its a great site.


Be careful what you post there, the admins are very ban-happy. 'Infractions' are dished out for even the slightest political transgressions.

Debs in particular is awful.

Revleft as a cross section represents everything that is wrong with the modern leftist community.

I was banned, at one stage I was a moderator there.


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RedStar98
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02 Jan 2014, 3:43 pm

thomas81 wrote:
RedStar98 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Have you tried revleft yet?


I have as matter of fact, its a great site.


Be careful what you post there, the admins are very ban-happy. 'Infractions' are dished out for even the slightest political transgressions.

Debs in particular is awful.

Revleft as a cross section represents everything that is wrong with the modern leftist community.

I was banned, at one stage I was a moderator there.


An online friend of mine was banned the other day, actually, he'd only been using it for a month. I don't have an account, but there is a lot to read through and a great research tool although I'm too shy to contribute myself.



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03 Jan 2014, 10:00 pm

I am, but I'm an Marxist anarchist. I don't admire any socialist government. It's all theoretical, though. I don't live on a squat and I even vote (for Labour.)

My aim is to try and agitate and subvert things. I want to be a writer, so that's where I'm going to try and make a difference (I tried being in a band, but I'm better off writing.) I'm going to write a tv comedy. The revolution is also in how you conduct your personal life as well, and I don't mean boycotting stuff or raiding supermarket dumpsters (though those are good things, just not my style) - it's also in the communities that you build and contribute to, the way you treat people, even how you love and have sex. Love is a very subversive thing if it's authentic.

I was into Trotskyism and wanted to join the SWP when I was your age, but my parents didn't let me. I'm now glad about that!


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