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the american health care paradox

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auntblabby
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24 Dec 2013, 4:42 pm

(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive



ruveyn
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24 Dec 2013, 4:45 pm

auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive


Not the only motive, but perhaps the main motive.

ruveyn



chris5000
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24 Dec 2013, 4:52 pm

auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive

it was affordable till the government got involved

you can also thank the million dollar lawsuits for malpractice and the AMA for the high prices

but on the flipside if you have money the best quality healthcare in the world is in the united states



auntblabby
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24 Dec 2013, 4:55 pm

ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive


Not the only motive, but perhaps the main motive.

ruveyn

that's right- money AND power are the main motives in this nation. but together they really are just one motive because money=power and power=money.



auntblabby
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24 Dec 2013, 4:55 pm

chris5000 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive

it was affordable till the government got involved

you can also thank the million dollar lawsuits for malpractice and the AMA for the high prices but on the flipside if you have money the best quality healthcare in the world is in the united states

but the aforementioned paradox is despite having the fanciest gold-plated healthcare for the rich, they are still less healthy on average, than their European and Asian brethren.



em_tsuj
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24 Dec 2013, 11:44 pm

money = power = ability to make and keep more money = tough luck for people who don't have power and are harmed by the government policies you help influence

I just want to share my recent experience. I don't have health insurance because I quit my job about 3 months ago. My options are to pay a lot of money for COBRA on top of paying co-pays for my healthcare OR signing up for healthcare on the exchange, which is also unaffordable. It would be cheaper for me not to have health insurance, just to pay out of pocket. I have to decide whether or not I want to subsidize someone else's healthcare by signing up for health insurance. I am a patriotic American. I am also compassionate. However, I can't afford to subsidize someone else's healthcare. I am poor. That is why people hate the ACA. It is very heavy-handed and it doesn't go far enough in resolving the issues that are driving up healthcare costs.



auntblabby
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24 Dec 2013, 11:50 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
money = power = ability to make and keep more money = tough luck for people who don't have power and are harmed by the government policies you help influence

I just want to share my recent experience. I don't have health insurance because I quit my job about 3 months ago. My options are to pay a lot of money for COBRA on top of paying co-pays for my healthcare OR signing up for healthcare on the exchange, which is also unaffordable. It would be cheaper for me not to have health insurance, just to pay out of pocket. I have to decide whether or not I want to subsidize someone else's healthcare by signing up for health insurance. I am a patriotic American. I am also compassionate. However, I can't afford to subsidize someone else's healthcare. I am poor. That is why people hate the ACA. It is very heavy-handed and it doesn't go far enough in resolving the issues that are driving up healthcare costs.

if you are married and making less than $89k per annum, you WILL be getting some kind of subsidy, that is THE LAW. if you are single that figure is about $44k. are you telling me you are both "poor" AND making more than those amounts?



cathylynn
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24 Dec 2013, 11:54 pm

chris5000 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive

it was affordable till the government got involved

you can also thank the million dollar lawsuits for malpractice and the AMA for the high prices

but on the flipside if you have money the best quality healthcare in the world is in the united states


actually, when I practiced medicine, I let some of my patients know when mistakes had been made. NONE of them sued. I think people tend to under sue, not over sue. tort reform is an insurance company wet dream and a nightmare for someone who has been genuinely wronged.



auntblabby
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25 Dec 2013, 12:09 am

I would not sue just so long as the system did its best to make me whole again.



ruveyn
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25 Dec 2013, 11:27 am

auntblabby wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive


Not the only motive, but perhaps the main motive.

ruveyn

that's right- money AND power are the main motives in this nation. but together they really are just one motive because money=power and power=money.


You overlook the fact that there are folks who do the right thing because it is the right thing. That does not happen as much as it should, but it does happen.

I record technical books for the blind and dyslexic. I do not make a cent from it. It is all volunteer work. I also have donated over 20 gallons of blood and or platelets in my lifetime. I have not received a penny for it, nor did I ask for money.

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25 Dec 2013, 12:19 pm

cathylynn wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)this is what happens to a nation when the profit motive is the only motive

it was affordable till the government got involved

you can also thank the million dollar lawsuits for malpractice and the AMA for the high prices

but on the flipside if you have money the best quality healthcare in the world is in the united states


actually, when I practiced medicine, I let some of my patients know when mistakes had been made. NONE of them sued. I think people tend to under sue, not over sue. tort reform is an insurance company wet dream and a nightmare for someone who has been genuinely wronged.


Lawsuits, for most people, for those who file them, are an ordeal. People don't normally sue for fun. They cost money and have no guaranteed return but they do have guaranteed headaches. Corporations usually enjoy suing people because they aren't people and everything is written off.



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25 Dec 2013, 12:21 pm

This idea of people suing for the fun of it based on the usual anecodotal evidence is not unlike the same claims about prisoners suing to gum up the works. This mythology prompted a law passed by the Gingrich Congress and signed by Clinton which has essentially served to legalise prison rape and abuse by guards by effectively banning any attempts to stop it. These efforts by the Right to make people helpless in the face of injustice are shameful.



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26 Dec 2013, 8:10 pm

While there are of course frivolous law suits, the majority of them are in fact legit. Take away the ordinary individual's right to redress wrongs in the civil realm, and all of us will be at the mercy of powerful individuals and organizations who will be able to act badly without any fear of the repercussions.


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auntblabby
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26 Dec 2013, 8:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
While there are of course frivolous law suits, the majority of them are in fact legit. Take away the ordinary individual's right to redress wrongs in the civil realm, and all of us will be at the mercy of powerful individuals and organizations who will be able to act badly without any fear of the repercussions.

what the righties gloss over, is the historical fact that if you take away legal redress, all that remains is IL-legal redress.



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26 Dec 2013, 9:04 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
While there are of course frivolous law suits, the majority of them are in fact legit. Take away the ordinary individual's right to redress wrongs in the civil realm, and all of us will be at the mercy of powerful individuals and organizations who will be able to act badly without any fear of the repercussions.

what the righties gloss over, is the historical fact that if you take away legal redress, all that remains is IL-legal redress.


The rich and powerful seriously need to consider what people might be driven to if they no longer have anything to lose.


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auntblabby
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26 Dec 2013, 9:06 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
While there are of course frivolous law suits, the majority of them are in fact legit. Take away the ordinary individual's right to redress wrongs in the civil realm, and all of us will be at the mercy of powerful individuals and organizations who will be able to act badly without any fear of the repercussions.

what the righties gloss over, is the historical fact that if you take away legal redress, all that remains is IL-legal redress.


The rich and powerful seriously need to consider what people might be driven to if they no longer have anything to lose.

there will always be those who make it past the gauntlet of rich goons' bullets. the righties ignore this at their peril.