Defining racism. Your thoughts?

Post Reply New Topic

Where do we draw the line for racism? I think I thought along the same lines as most people, where racism is thinking, acting, or saying something disparaging about someone because of their race. I had thought that racism required malevolent intent toward the race. I had no idea that in this day and age, racism can be taken to new levels, such as noticing and mentioning that someone is another race, or even using a word that has applied to other races before but has been associated with a particular race lately.

The two examples I'm talking about are describing the dichotomy of two main characters in a narrative, one is big, black, male and intimidating, the other is skinny, white, female and bitchy. Even with no racist intent there, apparently someone, somewhere can find racist intent and then no matter the reasoning behind the words, the narrator is immediately branded racist. Simply because someone else thought it was.

Another example is the word thug. Fonzie in Happy Days was called a thug because of his leather jacket. He was also called a hood. Nobody remembers that, do they? They remember that lately the word has been used to describe gangsta's and rappers who describe themselves as thugs. They picked the word to use to describe themselves, embraced it, and now if someone calls someone else a thug it may or may not be racist, depending on the color of the person being described.

What. The. f**k.

I'm far from racist. Far from it. I've taught my kids that racism is wrong, it's something that is part of history and we should learn from it and not repeat it. When my son was 7 he first learned that people are actually racist, still. He had no idea that people were racist until he learned it still went on, in school, during Black History Month. Up until then, he thought it was just some quirk these old and somewhat crazy neighbors of ours had - not liking black people. He didn't know it was an actual thing. So, after learning about Dr King's marches, he and his friend had a march. It attracted kids from all over the state and it was for kids and by kids. It was on the news, etc. He got all kinds of awards, from all kinds of agencies and letters from all kinds of people about that. Even from Bill Clinton and from Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center. He still thinks racism is stupid. Racist parents aren't going to raise that kind of kid.

When we first moved down here there was a Klan Rally. I reported it, and then showed up for it. This isn't to be confused with the other one that didn't happen after the news got hold of the story. This one still happened. I brought a block of cheese and stood there cutting it up and laying it out on a napkin on the hood of my car. When asked what I was doing I told them that I brought some cheese to go with all the crackers. I was asked to leave.

A black friend of mine was over here when I was posting my response in that one thread. I was going to Walmart with him to help pick out a present for his wife who I know her taste and he needed female help. I told him I'd come with him in just one second when I finished this, that I was busy and he asked what it was. He read it. He said "Is that all you did? You didn't do anything wrong. I would have described him the same way. They acting like you called him a n*****!"

So, when did we as a society cross the line from being mean and hateful to someone because of their race, to simply noticing it and mentioning it in conversation? Are cops racist if they send out a description of a person and they mention their race? Are scholarships for people of particular races racist also? And, the most burning question of all is this one. Are people who prefer ProStock over NASCAR racist too? I mean they obviously shun one race over the other!

I think its racist to label someone by their race when its not necessary or not called for.

Also, racism carries varying levels of social repercussions. Its context dependent and the use of racist language or behaviour by a minority group does not equal the racism of a majority group.

Did you know that for many people ...

... denying racist intent is racist behavior?

... suggesting that racist stereotypes may have a nugget of truth in them is racist behavior?

... discussing the differences between the races -- even in a clinical sense -- is racist behavior?

... to even point out the superficial differences between the races is racist behavior?

... giving preference in hiring, housing and education to people on the basis of their race is racist behavior?

... taking pride in being a melanin-challenged person of northern European ancestry is racist behavior?

... actually being a melanin-challenged person of northern European ancestry is to be inherently racist?

I think you have to ask what the motives of these individuals highlighting the differences are.

9 times out of ten its a transparent pseudo scientific effort by neo-nutzis and other fascist boneheads to 'prove' why whites and non whites shouldn't inter-marry.

Or why malignant behaviour towards people with darker complexions are somehow deserving of it.

Yes, it is.

Not to mention incredibly stupid.

I wouldn't go as far as that.

That there's almost the definition of racist behaviour (it's not complete, but it's a good start.) That's why both positive and negative discrimination are wrong.

But when most people around you in that minority group also differentiate between the races during a conversation it makes it not a racist thing, just a regional variation of language use. In other words, if only the white people said somebody was black when talking to someone else, then it would be racist. But when black and white people both point out that someone is of a different race than themselves, it's a conversational quirk that's particular to that location and not racist.

I think that unless you treat people differently because of their race, or you think they are all the same because of their race, you aren't racist.

I always mimic the accent of the Chinese people when I order food on the phone.

Is that racist?

Not if you have this autistic tendency to unconsciously mimic people, like I do.

It's racist if you're doing it to take the piss.

I mimic everyone to be honest.

The point i was making about different levels of racism is this-

Minority groups within a country don't tend to have ownership over the political and religious infrastructure, ownership of the tv media or control over the police or armed forces. Whenever a majority racist identity or idea emerges it almost always gets greater levels of acceptance at an institutional level through society, the media and offices of power than if a analogous minority faction or idea emerges.

Admittedly, this is probably less applicable to the United States because you have a greater proportion of individuals of minority backgrounds in positions of influence. To put it a crude way though, the racism of the New Black Panther Party does not equal the racism of the Ku Klux Klan because the NBPP does not have the numbers, the money, the access to firearms, public sympathies by way of sheer majority numbers or police complicity that the KKK may have. Minority hate groups are 'handicapped' by not having friends in high places or large numbers. Not only that, they are turned into pariahs by majority group owned media sources.

And, have you seen our president? That's as high as you can go in our political infrastructure.

You probably have this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia

I have the reverse, Palilalia. Its similar to tourettes in that I find it difficult to think words without saying them. Or I repeat my own words.

I did grant you the concession that its less applicable to the USA. That said, hes the first black president out of how many? If anyones keeping score i think its going to be a while before that gap is anywhere near closed.

Its far more applicable to here in the UK. We are still waiting for our first black prime minister and there are no likely contenders in the wings. Also, majority hate groups bemoan every single concession or gain that is made by minorities.

The best one that comes to my mind is when Nick Griffin of the BNP complained about black policemen having a 'black policemen's union'. Saying it would be 'racist' to have a white policemen's union.

Apparently the points I made above are lost in his feeble logic.

Apparently, the "it's racist because I say it's racist" ideology is what seems to float nowdays. When somebody has to twist and turn and research and cite just to twist someone's words around into a racist comment, then wouldn't it kind of make you think that the comment wasn't racist and that the problem doesn't lie with the person making the comment but with the person doing all the twisting?

Here is an example of twisting things around to be offensive when they aren't, and it's not even racism, it's another ism. Wendy and Elisha are sitting around discussing the way Elisha's boyfriend is doing her wrong. Elisha has AS, but it's not a big concern for her. Wendy says to Elisha "He's dangling that engagement ring in front of your face like a donkey with a carrot!" because of how Elisha's bf keeps bringing up getting engaged in the future but keeps coming up with all kinds of things he wants her to change first. Elisha takes immediate offense and says that Wendy's comment is ablism because she has AS. How is it ablism? How is that in any possible world, ablism? Here's how;

The name Asperger Syndrome sounds like Ass-burger syndrome when pronounced by the majority of the people I know, even though it's not meant to. Encyclopedia Dramatica has a section where they put us down and they named it "Ass-pies". Ass is another word for donkey. By comparing her boyfriends behavior of her as if she were a donkey and the ring a carrot, Wendy has inadverdently called Elisha a donkey and has implied the word ass, which is part of ass-pies which was coined to be a slur against those with AS, so therefore Wendy is an ablist of the worst sort - the kind who won't admit her ablism and work to change it, because she says she didn't mean it that way and wasn't even thinking of it that way and has never heard of Encyclopedia Dramatica so how could she know what "ass-pies" are? It doesn't matter, she said it, it was implied, and now she not only owes Elisha an apology, she owes it to everybody on the spectrum, everywhere.

See how silly this can be? How things can sometimes be so twisted by a knee jerk reaction from some oversensitive twit that a remark that wasn't at all offensive and wouldn't be taken as offensive by 99.9% of the population, is now a giant red flag for some kind of bigotry?

Do you not see at all how caving to this kind of thinking can be a problem?

Sounds like you got it right to me.

Things get complicated per situation in the real world. But thats the general rule.

This stuff about just noticing someone's skin color being 'racist' is perhaps well intended, but going overboard. Too much of anything is too much.