UK: Was this lawful killing?

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If the man had no gun on him how can he have been a threat and why was he shot?

The man who was shot by police in August 2011 was killed lawfully according to the jury of the inquiry

Mark Duggan Killing Lawful says Jury

Is this a lawful killing? And she we be afraid of the police in the UK if they can lawfully kill unarmed people?

Duggan wasn't unarmed. He had the gun in his hand when the copper decided to pull the trigger. It seems he's thrown it away from him, but the copper had to make a decision in a split second, based on the fact that this was a known violent criminal who was considered likely to use the weapon that he had.

The police marksman said: "I'm hoping he's going to drop it. The next thing he does, he starts to move the gun away from his body. He's raised the weapon, moved it a couple of inches away from his body. I've brought my weapon up and I've discharged one round and I'm aiming for the central body mass because I'm looking to shoot to stop."

Sorry, but his family should just shut up and accept that their son lived by the sword and died by it. They ought to count themselves lucky that they're not being sent a bill for the bullet, as would happen in some countries where they wouldn't even have held an inquest.

I'm not a fan of the Met Police, but I've got zero sympathy for Mr Duggan.

You linked to the BBC report, which has been criticised on many comments boards for being laughably biased in favour of the Duggan family. Let's balance that out by having a link to the right wing Daily Mail...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2535905/BREAKING-NEWS-Mark-Duggan-LAWFULLY-killed-police-shot-dead-marksman-did-not-gun-hand-time.html

I'm sure this debate is going to rage on and on across the interweb.

The reports say he threw his gun away seconds before being shot.

I am not saying Mark Duggan is a saint but if he threw his gun away then that is surely an indication he was not going to use it.

Did the police know that he had threw his gun away?

The ruling is somewhat grey, I have little sympathy for a gun wielding thug, but extra-judicial killing is a major concern to me. What I find more concerning is the reporting that this death caused the rioting, from what I can understand this is somewhat fallacious. The initial riot erupeted outside a tottenham police station in response to the local police beating the crap out of a non violent (if somewhat mouthy) 16 year old girl who was part of a peaceful protest against the death.

I understood there was some issue with the family liason officer not informing the family of his death.

Police were already following him as they believed he was on his way to buy a gun, he did buy a gun and the guy that sold it to him is now in prison for that, the gun was found wrapped in a sock a few feet from where Mr Duggan was killed

The gang that Mark Duggan was part of were under surveillance after 10 shootings and two murders were linked to them, Mark Duggan himself had previously had a shooting at a club alleged at him.


The bahavior of Duggans family and friends inside and outside court yesterday is not really going to help gain sympathy

If the BBC's reporting of it is accurate, I would say yes, it was probably legal (because the police officer had a reasonable belief that Duggan was armed and dangerous).

Whether it was moral is another question. I would err on the side of saying it was.

It seems to have taken an awful long time to come to court. I can hardly remember it.

A public witness who filmed the after shooting footage says that Mark Duggan did not have the gun on him and looked like he was giving himself up when they shot him. They also shot him twice.

Well, if you want to be a 'gangsta' and be known for carrying for a gun, you do so knowing that there's a very good chance that you will lose your life to a police bullet.

Armed response police will not mess around with you. They want to go home to their families at the end of the day. It takes a split second to pull a trigger, and if you move the wrong way, I don't blame them if they don't want to wait to see what you're going to do.

I think Duggan probably was a criminal but I do think that the police overreacted. If he threw his gun away in an act of surrender, then all they had to do was tackle him, slip the cuffs on and take him away. There was no need to shoot him and therefore I feel that this was an unlawful killing. I just hope the ruling does not trigger any more rioting.

... and certain U.K. citizens like to criticise American law enforcement ...

In this country he was more likely to lose his life to a rival gangsters bullet than a police one. There just seems to be too many confusing and conflicting accounts to this case.

He was unarmed but he had a gun which was found 20 feet away in some grass later! I can't find any report saying he actually threw the gun, it seems to be a presumption. But if that's what happened it is safe to say he was surrendering himself and trying to get rid of the evidence.

It will not be long before all our police are armed and then we should all be afraid, especially when the police can be under so much pressure for a result like in the shooting of Menedez at Stockwell in 2005.

Agree that this case doesn't seem very straight forward in the detail which is what is making it confusing but from what I have read I understand that he had bought a gun and the police were following him, he got in a taxi and had the gun on him, the police stopped the taxi to arrest Duggan and then they shot him in the chest killing him. Somehow between getting out of the taxi and being shot, the gun, which was wrapped in a sock, made its way over a fence and landed around 20 feet away and the most logical answer to that is that Duggan threw the gun away when faced with the police and so was unarmed when they fired at him. Though that theory uses a considerable amount of assumption.

Well then, I suppose we will never know how the gun ended up over the fence.

I still reckon the police were very much at fault though.

I hope this country doesn't resort to a shoot first ask questions after system.

If he had of been arrested for possessing a firearm, he would be still alive now and probably be looking at getting out of jail soon.