The BIble

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What is it?

To me it is either the true word of God or it is just a collection of analogous tales written by man.

I have some sympathy for the literalists because they are in a bind, they truly see the bible as Gods word but are caught between this and the knowledge that much of the old testament is demonstrably false. The non literalists scoff at the literalists saying "you fools it is not meant to be taken like that it is analogous." Yet they don't seem to be able to see that their position places the creation of the Bible into the hands of men.

So, what do you think? Is the bible to be read literally and God deliberately put fundamental flaws into it, or it is analogous and if so what is the point of it and what is its relationship to the supernatural?

What is the Bible?

A collection of largely apocryphal stories of dubious origin that have been complied together for the last 2400 years (appr.), and that may or may not be based on actual historical events.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xN0vIFbxCc[/youtube]

This is a good summary. Of course, some aspects are not stories (such as Psalms, Revelations and the Song Of Solomon).

It's a little book. I've got one, someone gave it to me when I was a baby. I think it might have been my mother. I've never read it though.

The Bible is not one book, parts of it are allegory, some sections are raw history texts, some are poetry, some are all three. I have no issue with it being the creation of men, which is quite obviously is. The idea that God intended it to exist, maybe, the idea that he was the ghost writer of the whole thing, not likely. I could affirm neither and still be a practicing Christian.

Dumb question but...

If the Bible really were the word of God, then wouldn't the whole thing had been written from his POV? I admit that would make for an interesting read.

I agree, after all the new testament is man made, as it is supposedly an account of the life of Jesus and his teachings.

Some Jews say the Torah is a book about man written by God and the gospels and epistles are books about god written by men. So a shifting POV, at least according to some.

I don't think everything in the Bible need be taken one hundred percent literally for it to be divinely inspired. Rather than being seen as a science or history book, it's rather a book about faith and morals. And even in the case of morals, the time and place when it was written has to be taken into account before one tries to apply all of it to modern times.

^ could you define what you mean by divinely inspired.

So, it's like the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Not saying that it is 'written by God'. But:

A) Why do you believe that it is not written from God's pov?

B) Let's say that it is not written from God's pov: God (being God) would be omnescient enough to write from any pov he wants. Wouldnt he?

The best I can explain it as that the authors had been moved by God to write. That is not to say that the documents are without error when the author's personal ignorance of, or prejudice about, a certain subject comes up, but rather the central focus of the text should be regarded as the point. I don't believe in the notion of divine inspiration where it's supposed that God had what amounted to a telegraph line hooked up to the authors, who were simply taking down dictation.
Hope that helps with understanding what I'm getting at.

The Bible is called "the Word of God" because the Creator of all worked through 40 different authors over thousands of years, with the same consistent message. People bring up things like so-called "slavery" in the New Testament, or women being commanded to keep quiet...all while ignoring the historical background of those passages. In the latter example's case, women were separated from men in ancient Jewish temples. Some would shout or loudly whisper to their men across the way, so those in charge were trying to maintain order during the sermons.

Is the Bible an easy book to read or accept? No...but it is a very important one. I haven't poured over mine in several years, mainly resorting to online searches over specific verses and events. I'll also be blunt: there's things in the Bible I can't stand, and sometimes wish weren't true...but that's not my call. God never said we had to like His rules, but if we love Him, we are to follow them. None of us are perfect, but that's not a license for deliberate rebellion. God has a tremendous amount of grace, but that only applies to people willing to admit they need it.

I agree that would be interesting, but that's not the point of the Bible.

I think the Bible IS the word of God. However, God doesn't need to personally write down everything for HIS own sake. He knows He exists, He knows what He establishes as right/wrong, etc. The Bible is not for God.

The Christian Bible divided into "Old Testament" and "New Testament" refers to the testimony of men to the actions of God throughout the whole of man's experience with God. Sure, God could have just written everything down and struck everyone down who miscopied it. But that was never the point. The point was for men to write down what God told them or to teach their disciples what they saw and experienced. The Bible as a whole is a report on what those who were THERE experienced in order to pass on that knowledge and experience to the next generation of believers. I believe that God continues to be active in the lives of believers, so our own experiences become part of the story. We can write down those experiences if we so choose and leave it up to our spiritual descendants to make up their own minds about it. The important thing about the Bible being canon is that those experiences at the time could be confirmed as being direct experiences with God. Note that after the Babylonian exile writings, those experiences abruptly stopped. It doesn't mean God took a break…it just means there's no official way to verify that what God had to say to individuals was really what God had to say. When Jesus showed up, there was a whole new set of witnesses who had reason to believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah and pointed the way to God. The remained of the Bible (New Testament) is a record of those witnesses and their first-hand experience with God. With perhaps the exception of Hebrews, there are no second-generation accounts (which would be hearsay).

God knows that His word is more easily digestible if we get it from those who experienced God firsthand and related those experiences so that we can make up our own minds. If the book came straight from the hand of the Almighty, it wouldn't make it any more believable. Suppose you put someone on trial. If the person were to take the stand himself, have no representation, and no other witnesses, would his sole testimony be enough to defend himself against his accusers? Or if he himself were the accuser, would his testimony alone be enough to convict someone else? I look at the Bible more as collected testimony of a number of witnesses with myself as a juror. I find it sufficiently convincing. End of story.

I see MOST of the Bible as being a testament to God's desire for mankind. That doesn't take into account poetry and wisdom writings, the parables and sermons of Jesus, etc. There is a large body of work within the Bible that is meant to be taken literally. Part of our job is common sense trying to discern the difference between a literal writing and non-literal writing. My favorite example is Proverbs. It's full of riddles. There ARE contradictory statements in it ("Answer a man according to his foolishness…DON'T answer a man according to his foolishness…") that are intended to force the reader into a contemplation of deeper truth. Logically, statements like that cannot be considered true in the same sense…so one must question in what varying senses are they respectively true? A proverb is taken literally in the sense that proverbs are LITERALLY proverbs. Parables are LITERALLY parables, and may or may not refer to actual people or events. Poetry is LITERALLY poetry, though poetry can be based on divine truth or carry the purpose of revealing divine truth. Every piece of wisdom writings has to be taken with a grain of salt. A smart literalist can even figure that much out.