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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 9:14 pm

:lol:

http://kasamaproject.org/news-analysis/ ... communists


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Jacoby
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19 Jan 2014, 9:17 pm

Maybe you should make one for Naziism too.



thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 9:20 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Maybe you should make one for Naziism too.


The idea that naziism could be taken seriously in this day and age is a parody unto itself.

I would maintain that the only real and present danger from the right is libertarianism ala Ron Paul.

FYI. I didn't write this article.


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Jacoby
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19 Jan 2014, 9:25 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Maybe you should make one for Naziism too.


The idea that naziism could be taken seriously in this day and age is a parody unto itself.

I would maintain that the only real and present danger from the right is libertarianism ala Ron Paul.

FYI. I didn't write this article.


Naziism is closer to your beliefs than it is mine

keep apologizing for murderers tho :lol: I think you actually said in the other thread that the wrong side won the cold war. I don't need anyone to rule me.



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19 Jan 2014, 9:29 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Naziism is closer to your beliefs than it is mine

I somewhat doubt that.

Libertarianism is Social Darwinism by proxy. In effect, the only difference under Libertarianism is that you are free to starve. The elites run the show while everyone else gets the dregs (if that).

If you genuinely believe that, then you don't know how to read the political compass correctly.
Jacoby wrote:
keep apologizing for murderers tho :lol: I think you actually said in the other thread that the wrong side won the cold war. I don't need anyone to rule me.


News flash, buddy, you are being ruled. You're being ruled by the criminals in Wall Street and their gangster friends in the banking system.

As George Carlin once said "its a huge club... ...and you ain't in it!"

Its funny though, because this precisely the sort of reactionary sanctimony that the article pokes fun at.

While i don't necessarilly associate myself with tankies or Stalin romanticists, i share their disdain of just this sort of under analysis and intellectual dishonesty.

As for the cold war it is true though. I genuinely wonder if the Soviet bureaucrats even at their most craven could have screwed the world up as much as under the watch of the bankers and speculators. As theorised by trotsky and the fourth international, I suspect the soviet model would have been far more sustainable and beneficial for the people on a global level had it the worlds resources to work with rather than as a self contained economic pressure cooker with only russia and the eastern bloc.

Sadly, due to the rise of the second wave of the western 'forever war' against Islam that is focussing public attention away from class towards religion and the empowerment of the Yeltsin-ists its a question that will remain unanswered.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 19 Jan 2014, 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jacoby
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19 Jan 2014, 9:43 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Naziism is closer to your beliefs than it is mine

I somewhat doubt that.

Libertarianism is Social Darwinism by proxy. In effect, the only difference under Libertarianism is that you are free to starve. The elites run the show while everyone else gets the dregs (if that).

If you genuinely believe that, then you don't know how to read the political compass correctly.
Jacoby wrote:
keep apologizing for murderers tho :lol: I think you actually said in the other thread that the wrong side won the cold war. I don't need anyone to rule me.

Its funny because this precisely the sort of reactionary sanctimony that the article pokes fun at.


I believe in non-aggression, I believe in the freedom of man. I am not your slave. I would not be allowed to live in your world but you would in mine so I believe my righteousness is well justified.



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19 Jan 2014, 9:51 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I believe in non-aggression, I believe in the freedom of man. I am not your slave. I would not be allowed to live in your world but you would in mine so I believe my righteousness is well justified.


I believe in non-aggression too. The fact that the eastern bloc and soviet aligned states didn't practice it is an indictment of two things :

1 that they were in a state of war rather than not necessarilly believing in it principle.
and 2. they chose leaders who promoted the right ideas but contradicted those ideas with their legislation.

Yes, Stalin screwed up big time. Lenin even warned on his death bed about the dangers of letting that bastard into power. Moreover, Stalin wasnt even a communist. He had all of the original communist party members liquidated and replaced them with his own sychophants. There is a reason he sent hitmen after Leon Trotsky.

Theres also a reason why Russian fascists today claim him as their own. Most of the new left have dissavowed Stalin.


You can't not have slaves under libertarianism or capitalism because keeping people in a state of subjucation is its very life blood. You can't have a class system without social disparity and inequality You can't have rich people unless there is poor people (slaves).

I guess i would be allowed to live in your world, but only in as much as i can afford to pay for it which in practice may not mean an awful lot. Which is the whole point. Libertarianism takes the rifle butt and replaces it with a bar code.

You can entertain your feeling of self righteousness when you've explored the arguments which clearly you have'nt.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 19 Jan 2014, 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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19 Jan 2014, 10:01 pm

Poor people are not slaves. The only thing close to keeping the poor in poverty are liberals wanting to keep their vote and to have a pool of poster children to show the world how horrible and heartless conservatives are.
:roll:


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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 10:04 pm

Raptor wrote:
Poor people are not slaves.


Slavery is when you have a group of people being co-erced or forced into practices that they wouldn't otherwise do by a master class.

If you deny this, then you are revising what slavery means.

At best, what we have is indentured servitude extended.


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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 10:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
Poor people are not slaves. The only thing close to keeping the poor in poverty are liberals wanting to keep their vote and to have a pool of poster children to show the world how horrible and heartless conservatives are.
:roll:

Explain to me then, what tangible plans the GOP have to lift the impoverished americans out of their adversity.

This I must hear.


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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 10:13 pm

I think Russell Brand crystalised it quite eloquently recently when he said:

"when i was poor and complained about poverty, I was bitter. Now that I'm rich and complain about poverty, I'm a hypocrite. I'm starting to get the idea they just don't want to talk about inequality".


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19 Jan 2014, 10:15 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Poor people are not slaves.


Slavery is when you have a group of people being co-erced or forced into practices that they wouldn't otherwise do by a master class.

Oh, you mean work to earn a living?

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Poor people are not slaves. The only thing close to keeping the poor in poverty are liberals wanting to keep their vote and to have a pool of poster children to show the world how horrible and heartless conservatives are.
:roll:

Explain to me then, what tangible plans the GOP have to lift the impoverished americans out of their adversity.

This I must hear.


It's not the GOP's job to "lift" anyone.


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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 10:24 pm

Raptor wrote:
Oh, you mean work to earn a living?

There is work, and then there is work for works sake.

I am rigidly opposed to the latter.

I don't see bankers or CEO's cleaning toilets or wiping s**t out of sewer pipes. The reason this difference goes on is not pragmatism or concern for our fellow man but because of short sighted profitibility, sychophancy and the market value pinned to human labour.

We have the technology to automate almost every gruelling activity we expect humans to accomplish but in a far more efficient and humane way.

Raptor wrote:

It's not the GOP's job to "lift" anyone.


Precisely, which is why they are the enemy of the common man and must be thwarted at every turn.


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Jacoby
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19 Jan 2014, 10:26 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:

I believe in non-aggression, I believe in the freedom of man. I am not your slave. I would not be allowed to live in your world but you would in mine so I believe my righteousness is well justified.


I believe in non-aggression too. The fact that the eastern bloc and soviet aligned states didn't practice it is an indictment of two things :

1 that they were in a state of war rather than not necessarilly believing in it principle.
and 2. they chose leaders who promoted the right ideas but contradicted those ideas with their legislation.

Yes, Stalin screwed up big time. Lenin even warned on his death bed about the dangers of letting that bastard into power. Moreover, Stalin wasnt even a communist. He had all of the original communist party members liquidated and replaced them with his own sychophants. There is a reason he sent hitmen after Leon Trotsky.

Theres also a reason why Russian fascists today claim him as their own. Most of the new left have dissavowed Stalin.


You can't not have slaves under libertarianism or capitalism because keeping people in a state of subjucation is its very life blood. You can't have a class system without social disparity and inequality You can't have rich people unless there is poor people (slaves).

I guess i would be allowed to live in your world, but only in as much as i can afford to pay for it which in practice may not mean an awful lot. Which is the whole point. Libertarianism takes the rifle butt and replaces it with a bar code.

You can entertain your feeling of self righteousness when you've explored the arguments which clearly you have'nt.


How can you believe in non-aggression when you believe you have a right to the fruits of my labor? You defend Marxism but it based entirely on coercion. I suppose you can be a voluntary communist but I somehow doubt that's what you believe, you could go live in the forest with your comrades right now in that case.



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19 Jan 2014, 10:27 pm

Jacoby wrote:

How can you believe in non-aggression when you believe you have a right to the fruits of my labor?


If your house is on fire do you believe you have the right to a fire engine/fire truck?

Or would the true believer libertarian not grab a pail of water and endeavour to put out the flames himself?


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thomas81
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19 Jan 2014, 10:33 pm

also Ayn Rand died while recieving state welfare.

Image


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