Did Jesus REALLY exist?

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Yes I absolutely can. I have already given examples of rightwing Christian nut jobs murdering abortion clinic doctors, even to this day. After praying for their souls to your crappy god, of course. I'll add the 2012 Christian attack on the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and don't you dare tell me that he was not a Christian. We have already covered that. You can't just say they are bad Christians, so they are not really Christians. That's not logical. As others have pointed out, these type of people are a product of your lousy religion.

And don't even get me started on all the crappy wars that the Christian rightwing of this country keeps getting us into, and all the prisoners who are executed in this country. Think about why bible belt states like Texas execute the most people. Christians have been killing people for 2000 years, and using the bible to justify it. Nothing is going to change 2000 years of history. We will never be able to have peace in this world until Christianity has been eliminated.

Christian martyrs are no victims of Christianity, they are victims of the secular world around them.

Second, stop posting bs about the crusades, inquisitions, and other stuff that happened over 300 years ago. Those millions of people are probably matched by twice as many people murdered by people of other religions.

Like the religions of Stalin, Pal Pot, North Korea,and Imperial Japan, which are all more recent. Hitler killed less Jews than Stalin killed Ukrainians, which were probably Jewish and Catholic.
Plus, Hitler's religious beliefs had not that much influence on the holocaust. Mein Kamph isn't the bible.

That site is completely biased, and obviously is pretty poor at history class.

Are you trying to sound the the 'Hitler of Atheism' (as opposed to Catholic)?

No, I will not stop posting it, and I have posted plenty of evidence that it is continuing to happen to this day.

10 worst examples of Christian or far-right terrorism

If you are referring to Marxism be aware that I very much doubt that it is a viable proposition. I accept the failing of the various leaders, I accept that Lenin, for whatever excuses he gave, was a murderous bastard. I might wish for a socialist revolution, but I am becoming increasingly aware that it would in most probability, turn into a nightmare. I do however get cranky when concepts are misrepresented, and this is why I constantly challenge when the likes of North Korea are referred to as Marxist.

By the same token I am challenging the misconception that christianity and the bible are peaceful institutions, and that the authorship of both testaments are divine in nature.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sun, The Fidels, Joseph Koney, Ruwanda, Hirohito, Imperial Japan, Samurai who killed you just for insulting them,
Afganistan's Dancing Boys, The Drug Cartels of Central and South America, Pakistan-India blood feuds, China and baby girls, Mao, Babylonia, Assyria, Ancient Persia, The Congo, African Cocoa Industry, Egypt, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Pagans (Canaan), Sex Trafficking, Somalia.

As I recall, 98% of all the s**t above was either challenged by Christians, or had nothing to do with them.

North Korea celebrates Karl Marx as a hero, as do they Stalin, Lenin, and others.

I am not suggesting that without religion the world would be without vicious immoral behaviour. I have been trying to point out that the message of Christianity is not totally peaceful, and that the authorship of the gospels and other scripture matters. For centuries the gospels have been manipulated by people claiming to be the original author. They did this to represent the teachings of the apostles in a contemporary light, and especially create hysteria against the Jews.

As to North Korea being even remotely Marxist I suggest you compare the two ideologies before you make further comment and make a complete fool of yourself.

Do not associate right wing nutjobs with mainline Christians. We of mainstream Christianity no more approve of the actions of those idiots who kill in the name of my God than moderate Muslims approve of the actions of their radical element. Just because they use Christ as their justification hardly means that they represent the great majority of us, because they don't.

Possibly true, not sure of the actual numbers and lines of delineation. But it can be argued that your "mainstream Christianity" does not weald anything like the influence of your suggested minority, either now or throughout the history of your religion.

It is also true that this minority get their beliefs from scripture. This is why it is important to understand the origin of these scriptures and recognise the true letters of for example Peter and Paul in the NT and those of Isaiah and Deuteronomy in the OT from the forgeries. Trouble is if you do this then not a lot is left that can be claimed as Devine.

It is important to understand the history of the conflicts between Christians and Jews and Christians against themselves. Only then can you see the bible in anything approaching the truth.

I was referring to your read of Christian history but socialism sort of works as well. However like all Marxists you want a break from history to emerge, I am not quite so revolutionary leaning as all that. The biggest mistake all revolutions commit is that their proponents forget that they emerge from the culture not from some esoteric ether. What you label 'mainstream Christian' is quite similar to the mainline culture, especially when you start discussing past injustices, a part that you as a Marxist share with all of us as well.

Firstly you are wrongly attributing 'mainsteam Christians' to me. I was responding to kraichgauer's definition of 'his' type of Christian affiliation.

Secondly I would have thought that my explanation that whilst I might wish for a marxist revolution, my beleif that it is improbable and unlikely to succeed in its aims, would attest that I have a relatively good grasp of political history and culture.

I note that you are making no attempt to refute my claim that much of the bible consists pf either forged or wrongly attributed authorship and that this has led to a very man made cultural document. In other words the basis of christianity is human philosophy and politics rather than devine inspirations.

While that's true..the reality is the total impact of Christianity..on the welfare of individuals in many kinds of need around the entire world is immense...

Yup// there are some bad parts...

But the total extent of the giving effort and the priceless nature of the real life human connections it provides in the structured church services..for folks in an increasingly nuclear family society that are disconnected from life long relationships..is definitely more immense now than ever..as we become more of a nomadic society than ever before...in western cultures..

A recent study shows that loneliness is as deadly as obesity for total human nature..at about a 14% greater risk of death..generally speaking..and yes real life friendly human .. real full life emotional connections are assessed as the number ONE source of human happiness...

The Christian way of life..for those who are accepted in it and flourish..in it..as IN real life social communities.. benefit greatly across the life span..and yes that is over a billion people..just now...

My real beef with it..is if they do not move into the future..NOW and have more acceptance..for all other folks..including homosexuals..FOR Folks from other religions and such as that..

That more doors will close and the coldest condition..that human do experience...generally speaking..lack of real life human flesh and blood emotional connections..will flourish as the real human hell of disconnection from other social human animals...

i cherish those connections i have in my real life Catholic Church that in real effect AND AFFECT.. is all about loving and giving...the rest of the story..is meaningless to me..it doesn't even matter what language the service could or would be in..as long as there is the emotional contagion of LOVE..SACRED LOVE....

AND NAH.. THERE AIN'T NOTHING ESOTERIC ABOUT THAT ...

IT'S JUST HUMAN ANIMAL NATURE..AS A REQUIREMENT FOR TRUE HAPPINESS..AND BLISS..JUST BEING ALIVE...

BUT..YES IT'S ALL WORTH IT...
DIRTY LAUNDRY AND EVERYTHING ELSE..
AS LONG AS THERE IS LOVE..
THAT'S ALL THAT COUNTS..

Last edited by aghogday on 17 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Its a boring debate to have dent and not the point you made that I engaged you on. You get to raise doubts as if you have nothing to prove if I engage along those lines. Play the continuous skeptic, I tire of the drawl nature of those back and forth disputes. You are the one defending the Eherman view, it sits on the outskirts of the academic consensus, academically speaking the ball is in your court. To just throw out the statement 'gospels are wrong' or something broad like that is not going to draw me into discussion with you, Unless you decide to go line for line or we go into one particular book and how its supposed falsity leads to some contemporary issue you are just stringing sentences together so as to make someone else do work for you. In the face of that, its far more interesting to explore why you want to employ such a tactic in the first place, which is what I have been doing so far.

If numbers matter than you need to stop playing around with heretics and join the Catholic Church. They outnumber proddies 2-1. That many people can't be wrong.

EDIT: Oh, you already did. lol.

Last edited by simon_says on 17 Feb 2014, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mainline or not, they are a substantial part of Christians. You can't just dissociate all the negative fractions of your religion. Again those type of people are a product of Christianity.

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