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The new impeachment precedent

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HacKING
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22 Jan 2020, 11:44 am

I believe that the impeachment of Donald Trump looks to be for the most part unfounded. No absolute proof existed that he even did anything. Compare that to Watergate where Nixon was caught red handed and you see the issue. This was a very biased, rushed, and unprecedented impeachment vote. I think it sets a scary precedent that if the house is the opposite party of the president they can just impeachment them without a totally proven crime, most likely because they just don't like the president. I suspect Trump will be absolved and vindicated by the end of this, and if I'm right it's time for Americans to take an honest look at themselves and ask- "Is my hatred of this man worth throwing away the democratic and due processes?"



funeralxempire
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22 Jan 2020, 11:56 am

The president isn't entitled to use the power of the office to interfere with foreign aid that's been approved by Congress.

Impeachment isn't throwing away the democratic process, it's a tool intended to hold the president accountable when he abuses his office in the manner Trump has. Sadly, his cult's blind loyalty represents a glaring threat to American democracy and you appear to be peddling the same bovine excrement talking points they've been dishonestly trotting out.


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HacKING
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22 Jan 2020, 12:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The president isn't entitled to use the power of the office to interfere with foreign aid that's been approved by Congress.

Impeachment isn't throwing away the democratic process, it's a tool intended to hold the president accountable when he abuses his office in the manner Trump has. Sadly, his cult's blind loyalty represents a glaring threat to American democracy and you appear to be peddling the same bovine excrement talking points they've been dishonestly trotting out.


Calling the facts s**t isn't going to make them not facts, and the facts are that there is no definitive proof Trump broke the law or did anything that isn't within his power. If there was, then him walking free after this wouldn't even be a conversation because if it was proven that he did indeed commit a crime, Republicans would have all been on board with it but this is not bipartisan because it's biased and unproven, unlike watergate.



funeralxempire
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22 Jan 2020, 12:22 pm

HacKING wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The president isn't entitled to use the power of the office to interfere with foreign aid that's been approved by Congress.

Impeachment isn't throwing away the democratic process, it's a tool intended to hold the president accountable when he abuses his office in the manner Trump has. Sadly, his cult's blind loyalty represents a glaring threat to American democracy and you appear to be peddling the same bovine excrement talking points they've been dishonestly trotting out.


Calling the facts s**t isn't going to make them not facts, and the facts are that there is no definitive proof Trump broke the law or did anything that isn't within his power. If there was, then him walking free after this wouldn't even be a conversation because if it was proven that he did indeed commit a crime, Republicans would have all been on board with it but this is not bipartisan because it's biased and unproven, unlike watergate.


Republicans were quite open about not caring about the evidence and that they were only concerned about protecting Trump.

Calling lies facts won't make them true, and your claims that no proof exists are objectively incorrect. Trump's co-conspirators need to testify so the American people can know exactly how corrupt their president is. Republicans will likely still vote to acquit, but that's to be expected from the Party-Before-Nation party.


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22 Jan 2020, 12:27 pm

Trump usurped the power of the legislative branch in this instance, according to the Articles of Impeachment.

Congress had earmarked the aid; Trump blocked it, according to the Articles of Impeachment.

It's a violation of the Separation of Powers as set forth in our Constitution, if this is what happened.

Now....the burden is on the Democrats to prove that this, and the other charge, rises to the level of Impeachable Offenses.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 22 Jan 2020, 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HacKING
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22 Jan 2020, 12:41 pm

Send me something from an unbiased source to prove your claims. I will read it carefully.



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22 Jan 2020, 1:04 pm

Does such a thing even exist? Every source has some form of bias, but some are far better than others. What would you consider to be an unbiased source?


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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22 Jan 2020, 3:22 pm

Trump's own transcript shows him saying:

Quote:
I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.


Quote:
Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.


Quote:
Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything.


Pretty open and shut really.



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22 Jan 2020, 3:34 pm

there are countless reasons to remove trump, democrats just picked some of the worst and weakest possible arguments for it.

the establishment doesn't like him because he can't keep his mouth shut and puts a bad face on american imperialism...which has been going on for decades and will continue even if he is removed and another establishment corporate candidate like biden takes office.


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22 Jan 2020, 10:40 pm

We ended up cracking jokes at work today about how the soon-to-be-reelected Trump was getting impeached and might be several times in his two, or maybe four terms.

One of the bigger objections was that it was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars but then when they said that congress wasn't getting anything done while they were focused on impeachment - that actually might be be the silver lining.


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Brehus
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22 Jan 2020, 11:04 pm

Just left playing to their base as they know there is a 0% chance Trump gets impeached.

No different then how the Republican's use to send bills to Obama to repeal affordable care act knowing he would veto just to play to their base and then when the Republican's had control of the House and Senate and Presidentcy the would not repeal affordable care act.


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funeralxempire
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23 Jan 2020, 1:52 am

Brehus wrote:
Just left playing to their base as they know there is a 0% chance Trump gets impeached.


You're aware he's already been impeached, right?
He won't be removed from office but he can't be un-impeached, he's been impeached and that will remain on his record for all eternity.

Of course, Republicans will put political considerations ahead of any actual commitment to upholding the constitution, they'll vote to acquit and the broken system will continue to be broken and untrustworthy.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Brehus
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23 Jan 2020, 10:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Brehus wrote:
Just left playing to their base as they know there is a 0% chance Trump gets impeached.


You're aware he's already been impeached, right?
He won't be removed from office but he can't be un-impeached, he's been impeached and that will remain on his record for all eternity.

Of course, Republicans will put political considerations ahead of any actual commitment to upholding the constitution, they'll vote to acquit and the broken system will continue to be broken and untrustworthy.


Doesn't matter he won't be removed it is just a political play to their base nothing move Politics in the US has a reality TV show
Both parties have crooked people and every time a crooked person is voted out a new crooked person takes their place.

I worked for the Govermemt for almost 10 years I seen a lot of corruption. I left because I didn't want to play the corruption game I have high moral values what I can tell you the only time someone got in trouble for corruption was when they made the wrong person mad and they stopped looking the other way and used it to get rid of the person.


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Last edited by Brehus on 23 Jan 2020, 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Jan 2020, 10:55 am

HacKING wrote:
... there is no definitive proof Trump broke the law or did anything that isn't within his power ... the impeachment of Donald Trump looks to be for the most part unfounded ... No absolute proof existed that he even did anything ...
Do you know all of this for a fact?  Are you intimately familiar with all of the evidence?  Calling facts lies won't make them false.

Impeachment IS part of the democratic process.  Having the  nobles  elected representatives put the  king  president on trial is the only way to prove, one way or the other, the  king's  president's privilege to continue to  ruling  serving this country.



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23 Jan 2020, 11:04 am

HacKING wrote:
I believe that the impeachment of Donald Trump looks to be for the most part unfounded. No absolute proof existed that he even did anything.


The rest of your post has already been addressed, but I find your hesitant language very interesting: you don't really sound convinced yourself of what you're saying...


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23 Jan 2020, 2:28 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
HacKING wrote:
I believe that the impeachment of Donald Trump looks to be for the most part unfounded. No absolute proof existed that he even did anything.


The rest of your post has already been addressed, but I find your hesitant language very interesting: you don't really sound convinced yourself of what you're saying...

Interesting take.

Another way to look at it is that there's no proof Trump has done anything. No proof he ran for election, no proof he promised to build the wall, no proof he got out of bed this morning.

It's a bit like those sentences they have in books about autism like "I didn't say she stole my money" which are intended to show the importance of non-verbal communication.