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The_Walrus
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10 Mar 2014, 7:22 am

In response to the OP, of course conservatives have rights, that's a ridiculous straw man.

I think "liberals" (as used here) are opposed to harmful, groundless, sweeping stereotypes of oppressed groups, kind of libel en masse. This is often called "hate speech". On economic issues, I don't think left-wingers are any less likely to engage with the opposition than right-wingers, but on social issues, perhaps.

Dox47 wrote:
billiscool wrote:
when a conservative disagree with a liberal.
Liberal:''whoa,Bro,your like a total hater,you need
to shut up,Man''
other Liberal:''yeah,man,we Believe freedom of speech,
but you Conservative are Like total hater,we can't
have you speak at the convention,Bro''


Here's how I put it: conservatives think liberals are wrong, liberals think conservatives are evil.

Watch, some liberal will come along and try to argue 'but Dox, conservatives are evil' and cite some anecdote or mention some particular conservative jackass and try to generalize that onto conservatives as a whole.

My money's on Kraichgauer, but Auntblabby or Arrantpariah are possibilities, as are a few newcomers to the demonize conservatives game.

More specifically, "conservatism" broadly supports business, "liberalism" (as used here) broadly supports the individual. It's easy to frame giant corporations as "evil", but harder to frame liberals as anything worse than hippies or trade unionists. So I think this dialogue is natural, though obviously not always correct.



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10 Mar 2014, 10:19 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I still don't know what it is conservatives want besides not to pay taxes. Well that's what everyone wants but we all know that aint ever gonna happen so might as well get something out of what you put in, right? Like roads, schools, services of some kind.
I mean it is time for conservatives to wake up and face the reality. It's taxes. They aren't ever going to go away. They just aren't. Every tax break adds more debt that's the truth. It's not a real break. It is just part of spending.
Most conservatives have no idea what it means to reduce spending all together. It means shrinking the economy. There won't be as much money in circulation. Everyone would lose money in the deal. If the government were to do that, conservatives would suffer too then they would just find another reason to blame the government for their miserable state of mind. It's just misery. Find a hobby for God's sake!! ! Find some joy out of life. Conservatives honestly never seem to be satisfied with anything. If something goes wrong, which, inevitably, it will, they just blame someone else, like the government or liberals. They often have a piss poor understanding of the way the economy works, as in, it's theoretically impossible for everyone to become wealthy. There's just not enough money in circulation for that to happen. So they think if the government will just wave a magic wand and do what the conservative wants he will become wealthy and when whatever he does doesn't create the results he expects, he blames the government. That's all conservatives seem to want to do, pass the blame for every failure in their life onto the government.
Sometimes you just have to face reality and figure out you will not always get your way in everything. It's called growing up.


It's not taxes alone but the inefficiency of how tax revenue is utilized. Conservatives and liberals have separate and distinctly different views on the role of government. That's never going to change.

Quote:
Conservatives honestly never seem to be satisfied with anything.

Yeah right. :roll:
I've never seen a more embittered group than liberals. We have a lot of sourpusses in our camp but nothing like the left.


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10 Mar 2014, 10:31 am

I'm not a sourpuss or bitter.Conservatives seem grumpier, lacking humor.I bet their parties are dull also.


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10 Mar 2014, 10:52 am

Misslizard wrote:
I'm not a sourpuss or bitter.

Did I say ALL liberals?

Quote:
Conservatives seem grumpier, lacking humor.I bet their parties are dull also.

I wouldn't know. Ive been to parties but none of them have been labeled as conservative or liberal.
BTW, it's not at all uncommon for conservatives to smoke pot and be in favor of decriminalising it


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Last edited by Raptor on 10 Mar 2014, 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

sonofghandi
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10 Mar 2014, 10:53 am

sly279 wrote:
the liberal media ignores and censors anything that differs from their ideals.
I see lots of supposed peaceful liberals threaten people who think different then them.


Hmmm . . .
If you take the word "liberal" and replace it with "conservative," the statement would be equally valid.

sly279 wrote:
liberals are more close minded though from my experience. I can get conservatives to understand why we need welfare, but I can't get liberals to see any point but their own.


I find that liberals are more closed minded on certain issues, but conservatives also have their issues on which anything that is not in total agreement will be dismissed or ignored. Especially when it comes to anything labelled "morality" that comes from the religious side of things.


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10 Mar 2014, 11:18 am

billiscool wrote:
when a conservative disagree with a liberal.
Liberal:''whoa,Bro,your like a total hater,you need
to shut up,Man''
other Liberal:''yeah,man,we Believe freedom of speech,
but you Conservative are Like total hater,we can't
have you speak at the convention,Bro''


Speaking of conventions, the recent CPAC convention refused to allow atheist conservatives to attend because Christianity was a fundamental part of conservative principles, according to the event organizers.

Also, nobody is censoring conservative views on television. It's just that many conservative positions don't test well with audiences, and are therefore less profitable. The free market is to blame. There are still a million different strong media outlets where you can get any brand of conservative thought that suits you.



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10 Mar 2014, 11:28 am

Conservatives support my right to make my own decisions. Unless I was deciding to do something immoral, by their standards of morality of course. Then they claim the authority to compel my behavior at gunpoint – all for my own good, you know, else I might go to Hell.

"Liberals" support my right to make my own decisions. Unless I was deciding to enter into a voluntary contract, involving money, with another adult. Then they claim the authority to compel my behavior at gunpoint – all for my own good, you know, else I might get "exploited."

These are not opposites, they are different sides of the same coin. A pox on both their houses.



The_Walrus
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10 Mar 2014, 11:58 am

luanqibazao wrote:

"Liberals" support my right to make my own decisions. Unless I was deciding to enter into a voluntary contract, involving money, with another adult. Then they claim the authority to compel my behavior at gunpoint – all for my own good, you know, else I might get "exploited."

A pox on both their houses.


Not only is that total rubbish (unless you can back up your statement with something based in reality), but the quote is "plague", not "pox".

Edit: realise I needn't have trimmed the quote. That will teach me not to read posts from the bottom up. Conservatives don't claim the authority to compel your behaviour at gunpoint, unless you try and murder.



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10 Mar 2014, 12:12 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Conservatives support my right to make my own decisions. Unless I was deciding to do something immoral, by their standards of morality of course. Then they claim the authority to compel my behavior at gunpoint – all for my own good, you know, else I might go to Hell.

"Liberals" support my right to make my own decisions. Unless I was deciding to enter into a voluntary contract, involving money, with another adult. Then they claim the authority to compel my behavior at gunpoint – all for my own good, you know, else I might get "exploited."

These are not opposites, they are different sides of the same coin. A pox on both their houses.


I don't get it. If the government doesn't enforce your contract, it is not worth the paper it's written on. Or, do you wish to abolish government mandated labor standards?
If so, do you believe this is ethical?



Last edited by Stannis on 10 Mar 2014, 12:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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10 Mar 2014, 12:14 pm

I don't see that many conservatives that really take up for the enviroment,I'm sure there are some.If the Conservative party wants to attract younger voters they need to ditch people like Texas Rep.Susan King.I hope she goes to Florida and gets swallowed by an anaconda.I doubt you will find many liberals attending events like this.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/03 ... acaptivity


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10 Mar 2014, 12:15 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
else I might get "exploited."


If you live in America, you probably already are.



luanqibazao
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10 Mar 2014, 1:32 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Not only is that total rubbish (unless you can back up your statement with something based in reality),


The OP appears to be an American and I am referring to the terms in modern American parlance. American "liberals" can no longer be said to be pro-liberty, they are synonymous with Progressives – whose entire focus, for 125 years or so, has been on closely regulating every aspect of economic life, ostensibly for the sake of consumers. Everything we buy, from a car to a pencil, has been controlled and delimited by millions of regulations; thousands more come out of D.C. every year, mostly decreed by unelected bureaucrats and all enforced by law. People who have never been involved with a business have no idea of the snowstorm of rules, many of them arbitrary, contradictory, and nonsensical, which must be obeyed by the smallest enterprise. The primary effect is to drive up prices, quash innovation, and stifle competition, fostering the very corporate centralization "liberals" claim to abhor.

Quote:
but the quote is "plague", not "pox".


Lack of quotation marks or chapter/verse citation makes it an allusion, not a quotation. I reserve the right to modify allusions for my own purposes.

Quote:
Conservatives don't claim the authority to compel your behaviour at gunpoint, unless you try and murder.


Or gamble, or smoke marijuana, or buy a beer on Sunday morning (or at all, some places). Or marry someone of the same sex. It wasn't libertarians who until recently, historically speaking, made simply being homosexual a criminal act.



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10 Mar 2014, 1:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
billiscool wrote:
when a conservative disagree with a liberal.
Liberal:''whoa,Bro,your like a total hater,you need
to shut up,Man''
other Liberal:''yeah,man,we Believe freedom of speech,
but you Conservative are Like total hater,we can't
have you speak at the convention,Bro''


Here's how I put it: conservatives think liberals are wrong, liberals think conservatives are evil.

Watch, some liberal will come along and try to argue 'but Dox, conservatives are evil' and cite some anecdote or mention some particular conservative jackass and try to generalize that onto conservatives as a whole.

My money's on Kraichgauer, but Auntblabby or Arrantpariah are possibilities, as are a few newcomers to the demonize conservatives game.


Ah, I see my reputation precedes me.
But when have I ever said conservatives are evil? I just strongly dislike how homophobes and racists are more likely to be found in their number. And no, I am not saying all conservatives are racists and homophobes - in fact, most are probably not.


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10 Mar 2014, 1:51 pm

Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I'm not a sourpuss or bitter.

Did I say ALL liberals?

Quote:
Conservatives seem grumpier, lacking humor.I bet their parties are dull also.

I wouldn't know. Ive been to parties but none of them have been labeled as conservative or liberal.
BTW, it's not at all uncommon for conservatives to smoke pot and be in favor of decriminalising it


I always thought that lines of coke from the bosom of a harlot was the conservative recreational drug of choice.

It makes them beastly for that aggressive foreign policy. :lol:


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10 Mar 2014, 1:55 pm

^^*Well that explains why Raptor acts the way he does. :D He's probably got a defense dept.expense account which allows for a certain number of harlots and grams of coke.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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10 Mar 2014, 1:57 pm

Raptor wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I still don't know what it is conservatives want besides not to pay taxes. Well that's what everyone wants but we all know that aint ever gonna happen so might as well get something out of what you put in, right? Like roads, schools, services of some kind.
I mean it is time for conservatives to wake up and face the reality. It's taxes. They aren't ever going to go away. They just aren't. Every tax break adds more debt that's the truth. It's not a real break. It is just part of spending.
Most conservatives have no idea what it means to reduce spending all together. It means shrinking the economy. There won't be as much money in circulation. Everyone would lose money in the deal. If the government were to do that, conservatives would suffer too then they would just find another reason to blame the government for their miserable state of mind. It's just misery. Find a hobby for God's sake!! ! Find some joy out of life. Conservatives honestly never seem to be satisfied with anything. If something goes wrong, which, inevitably, it will, they just blame someone else, like the government or liberals. They often have a piss poor understanding of the way the economy works, as in, it's theoretically impossible for everyone to become wealthy. There's just not enough money in circulation for that to happen. So they think if the government will just wave a magic wand and do what the conservative wants he will become wealthy and when whatever he does doesn't create the results he expects, he blames the government. That's all conservatives seem to want to do, pass the blame for every failure in their life onto the government.
Sometimes you just have to face reality and figure out you will not always get your way in everything. It's called growing up.


It's not taxes alone but the inefficiency of how tax revenue is utilized. Conservatives and liberals have separate and distinctly different views on the role of government. That's never going to change.

Quote:
Conservatives honestly never seem to be satisfied with anything.

Yeah right. :roll:
I've never seen a more embittered group than liberals. We have a lot of sourpusses in our camp but nothing like the left.

You conservatives should quit your belly aching and be grateful you live in a place that gives you something in return, especially if you live in the city. If you live in a rural area, you don't get hardly anything from your tax dollars, true.
In some countries. the taxes are far worse and the people get nothing, the corrupt government just vacuums the money and it gets sucked into a black hole where it disappears forever. Ever think of that?