What do you all think of artificial selection?

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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16 Mar 2014, 8:09 pm

Are there two types of selection for genetics, artificial and natural?



naturalplastic
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16 Mar 2014, 8:22 pm

"Artificial selection" is usually called "domestication". Of course it exists.

Humans have been artificially selecting traits in animals and plants for thousands of years.

So what are you talking about?

Ofcourse there is both artificial, and natural selection.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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16 Mar 2014, 8:26 pm

Most people just talk about natural selection and ignore artificial. What if aliens engineered humans without our knowing and that is why we are so different and seem so artificial compared to the wild species inhabiting the arena of natural selection?



naturalplastic
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16 Mar 2014, 8:35 pm

you're not the first person to suggest that aliens bred the human species, and speeded up our evolution.

"What if they did?"

Well....you tell us. What if they did?

What are you getting at?

They could have bred us the way our own ancestors bred plants and animals. Or (since they were presumably more advanced than we are now because they had interstellar space travel) they might have been able to directly manipulate our DNA in ways we are only now are starting to be able to do.

But what about it?

Do you have evidence?



Inventor
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17 Mar 2014, 2:03 am

It is hard to say. Since diverging from Pan, our line seems to have split many times.

Humans do have some weird, but perhaps we came by it naturally.

The five million year pattern is mostly lost, but the last half million shows in our genes.

We were the same as neanderthal, 600,000 years ago, to a common ancestor. Neanderthal was 250,000 years apart from denisovan, but somehow, humans bred with both in the last 100,000 years.

This genetic divergence over time produces survivor lines, which do not change. They are losing genes.

When two related survivor lines mix, the best and worse join, and the results can seem a new species.

The results seem messy, some die out quickly, some have conditions that reduce them over time.

After the last human-denisovan-neanderthal mating, Cro Magnon appears.

Cro Magnon was taller than a modern man, had a brain 300 ccs larger, and survived for thousands of years.

They died out, but the smaller brained humans survived. It was a possible low reproduction rate caused by a baby with a head to large to pass through the birth canal. 1% greater or lesser birth rate, over a thousand years, humans returned to the 1200 cc brain we had before and after.

Homo florensis, the hobbits, were an island group only a meter tall. Fully human, had survived millions of years, until 17,000 years ago. Perhaps they were eaten, perhaps they bred with the larger humans, and died out in childbirth. None of their genetics survive.

As much as 40% of the neanderthal genome is carried by humans, up to 4%, but the results of many lines crossing.There were perhaps hundreds. Denisovan genes survive in humans, and several unnamed other lines.

That still leaves unanswered questions. The mostly hairless ape, with an attached skin, the other apes have a loose skin like dogs. The only ape with an ass. We have hams like a pig, also skin, hair, and organs, much closer to a pig than an ape.

Aliens might have done it, but not with their DNA, all of ours traces back to early pond scum, of local production.

Also, the pig would have come in millions of years ago, as neanderthal, denisovans, seem to have the same non ape traits.

Natural selection would seem to prevent an ape-pig mating, A mismatched number of cromosones, but adding a few extra to a pig egg, seems possible lab work. It would have been millions of years ago, and the results did not show any intellectual development until recently. Random interspecies sex is also possible. You cannot tell what will work till you try it.

Aliens designing something that would take millions of years to develop, possible, if they live outside of time.

I think time is gravity related, and between the stars there is a gravity null point.

From our own short time of thinking about it, even a hundred year plan seems impossible. In a thousand years the language would change, and for half the time we have been literate, there were three dark ages when no one wrote or read.

Multi million year projects seem iffy.

I could see space faring reptiles seeding planets with their favorite live snacks, but all our DNA is local.

Best I can tell, we are very, very random, and the result of sexual choices made by bonobos.

Their one choice, all of the above.



The_Walrus
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17 Mar 2014, 2:48 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Most people just talk about natural selection and ignore artificial. What if aliens engineered humans without our knowing and that is why we are so different and seem so artificial compared to the wild species inhabiting the arena of natural selection?

Firstly, that's dangerously close to an unfalsifiable hypothesis, gtfo.

How would you propose that aliens engineered humans?

Even if that did happen, humans would still be inhabiting the "world of natural selection". "Artificial selection" is not really distinct from "natural selection", it's just human preferences become one of the (main) conditions species have to deal with in order to reproduce. And what you've described doesn't sound like artificial selection anyway.



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17 Mar 2014, 4:58 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Most people just talk about natural selection and ignore artificial. What if aliens engineered humans without our knowing and that is why we are so different and seem so artificial compared to the wild species inhabiting the arena of natural selection?

I fail to see how humans are "so different and seem so artificial" compared to other species.

Humans excel in one area - we have highly developed brains. Cheetahs are faster, polar bears are stronger, owls have better sense of vision, dogs have better sense of smell, catfish have better sense of taste, scorpions have superior radiation resistance... hell, a species of jellyfish is apparently biologically immortal.

If mankind possessed superiour abilities in all of these categories at once, then it would suggest that something other than natural selection had been in play. As it stands, however, we are not really *that* impressive.



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17 Mar 2014, 7:36 am

Definition of "artificial":
made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally.

If human beings "seem artificial", that is because we define things as "artificial" if we do them.



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17 Mar 2014, 11:13 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Most people just talk about natural selection and ignore artificial. What if aliens engineered humans without our knowing and that is why we are so different and seem so artificial compared to the wild species inhabiting the arena of natural selection?


We are not so different. Dolphins, Orang Utans, manage as well to show the intelligence of 2-3 year old human kids, which is rather far. We simply have specialized on brain development, as Gepards have specialised on speed. But them being able to stand out that much, when it comes to running, does not make them so much else. The basic movement physiology, is quiet similar to others, just as our basic intelligence functions are quiet similar to others.



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17 Mar 2014, 5:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Definition of "artificial":
made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally.

By that definition nearly every human that was not naturally conceived is artificial as they are a product of human interference.
Natural to me would be without human interference.

Quote:
Natural hybridization is a relatively common
feature of vascular plant species and has been demonstrated
to have played an important role in their evolution.

http://www.pnas.org/content/93/10/5090.full.pdf

Hybridization of roses on the other hand is man-induced.



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17 Mar 2014, 5:53 pm

Every time I look at this I see "artificial semenation."And that's not really a word.Once at the lake there was a big sign that said Striper Fishing,but I thought it said Stripper Fishing and got an image of strippers on a bass boat.Now when I see that stupid sign I get that image.


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naturalplastic
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17 Mar 2014, 6:29 pm

The OP phrases it in an odd way that implies fault : "all anyone ever talks about is 'natural selection' when talking about the origin of the human species".

Ofcourse thats all they talk about. What else is there to do the selecting but nature? (unless you wanna drag God into it. But lets save THAT debate for another thread. Leave God alone for moment. Lol!).

We ourselves werent there to breed ourselves like cattle (unless you're postulating time machines from our own future taking future humans back to our distant past to breed...US now). So nature musta breed us through natural selection.

Aliens arent known to exist to all. They arent known to have visited earth- now, nor in the past.

But the OP just skips the stage of proving aliens exist, and proving that they visit earth, and just dives right in : to explain one unknown (the speed of human evolution), with another unknown (space aliens).

Would make a good sci fi novel.

But I dont see either the need to invoke space aliens to explain human evolution, nor do I see much evidence of earth being visited by space aliens in the prehistoric human past.

Also- its kind of a silly "turtles all the way down" kind of notion because: you're suggesting that the only reason there is an intelligent species on earth is because that species was breed to be an intelligent species- by a visiting spacefaring intelligent species from another planet. Which then demands the explanation of how did THAT species ( the aliens) evolve? Was THAT species bred on their home planet by yet another even more ancient species of space alien from yet another planet? If so then- how did that THIRD species evolve? And so on.

On top of that: if Earth was discovered five million years ago by space aliens what motive would they have to create humans anyway? Because they wanted to eat people-burgers?



guzzle
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17 Mar 2014, 6:48 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What if aliens engineered humans without our knowing and that is why we are so different and seem so artificial compared to the wild species inhabiting the arena of natural selection?


What if? Personally I am more worried about hospital superbugs.